"I'm Irish American"

[MacMahon]

I've noticed that to many Americans their Irish, Scots, Italian etc. roots are a big part of their current identity. As a nation of immigrants in a New World I can see why this link to earlier generations is interesting and important.

But it's also something I find confusing.

I live in Yorkshire. I'm English. I have Irish ancestors on both side (great grandparents and great x2 grandparents). If I was in America this would quite possibly be a big deal. I'd be an Irish American and identify with the struggles and persecution that my people suffered at the hands of the English. But I wasn't born in America, I was born in Leeds, and my Irish ancestry play zero role in my identity.

I'm on an ancestry group and Americans are getting that DNA test done and finding out that, contrary to family lore that they are Cherokee or Mexican or Italian Americans, they're actually pretty much 'just' 100% British.

It makes me wonder how authentic this celebrating or identifying with their Irish/First Nations/Italian roots is, and how much is just (mistaken) tribalism and division.

It's probably because they have most to do with the Irish Americans. Plenty of UK Brits with names like Murphy who dont consider themselves Irish.
I met an American man once (other Americans rolled their eyes at him tbf) who claimed that he liked a drink as he was a McDonald! Only he was Chinese ethnically as he had been adopted as a baby. No cultural, genetic or any link to Scotland whatsoever buy didn't stop him with the claiming an offensive stereotype for himself.
The thing about it is it's ersatz,it's not real it's all based on stereotypes they have absorbed. A lot of it offensive. E.g. as a Russian I must be an alcoholic dangerous slut/ prostitute. The men are 'killers'. Sormehow we're descended from these merry russian babushki that dress like matryoshki. They make very authentic Russiaan Borscht(sic) all day from very authentic ingredients that you wouldn't be be able to buy in Russia. But theire grandchildren are all kalasknikov wielding alkies.

Seems a shame. Why can't you me seen as a brilliant mathematician, scientist, musician, writer of very, very long books or a painter of icons?

It's weird. Italian Americans are the same with the stereotypes of mafiosi. Tell rhat to my Univeristy of Bologna educated elegant research scientist friend. Yes, Italy has some difficulties with mafia but it's a stupid thing they do to seem 'hard' or something.

@MacMahon

I think African American is different as they're still experiencing prejudices and hardships that have a big impact on their lives.

Yes, that's why I didn't include it it.

Agree that African-American is entirely different. I imagine people identify as African American because of a recent shared experience of being black in the USA, and it rarely involves harking back to the culture of an ancestral homeland.

Many African Americans would probably be very happy for US society to advance to the point where they could just be seen as "American".

I work with a guy from Boston and he's constantly going on about being Irish, despite only having been there once for a holiday. One of his great-grandparents was Irish and emigrated to the US. He's Catholic and from a large family and likes boxing and actually uses his Irish heritage to explain why he's so successful in his career (I come from a family of Irish boxers so we don't take any shit and are determined to succeed type of thing).

He's absolutely baffled by the fact that I actually have 2 Irish grandparents who met and married in actual Ireland but consider myself English, as my parent was then born and bought up in England after they'd moved over for work.

it's odd isn't it? he really considers himself equally Irish to American. I guess it's an immigration thing, though my grandparents were also immigrants to England but I don't feel I have any Irish identify whatsoever.

American life can be very tough foe the bottom rung.(e.g. new immigrants without wealth behind them and African Americans) but the average suburban american life is verrry comfortable eveb compared to Europeans. Especially in the 70s and 80s and 90s. I think they do it to sound less privleged and a bit tougher than their relatively pampered childhoods

I find it odd that it bothers people so much. They are not doing it to annoy you. Stereotypes are a bit annoying - I get that - but in my experience those that claim to be Irish have not adopted or communicated a stereotype.

I think it's fairly natural to have a strong connection to your parents homeland and that can be passed down the generations. The English people I know with Irish parents might not loudly declare they are Irish but often times they will let me know that they have an affinity to Ireland through their parents.

Interestingly I heard a Tory on TV while back describe Biden as Irish and it wasn't a compliment.

The English people I know with Irish parents might not loudly declare they are Irish but often times they will let me know that they have an affinity to Ireland through their parents

That's one generation though. I think op is talking about 100-200 year old ancestry.

But it's not their parents that's the point. It's their several times great grandparent. Conveniently ignoring all the others that weren't the ethnicity they want.
Elizabeth Warren and her claims of native American ancestry. It's bullshit essentially.

But cultural links can (and obviously do) pass down the generations. Why does it matter?

Because it reinforces harmful stereotypes that that the fully assimilated white 100% Americans don't have to deal with and the new immigrants do

Stereotypes are more than a bit annoying. On brooklyn 99, modern family and several other american shows i have seen it presented as fact that alcohol is like a drink of water to irish people. These shows are bought by other countries all over the world.

I agree with pp's who say they don't understand why anyone would have a problem with someone identifying themselves as Irish American etc. It doesn't dilute my Irishness just because someone in America called Patrick Murphy refers to his Irish roots when stating his identity.

Very often this sense of partially belonging to another country is handed down through generations whose forebears emigrated out of dire need rather than some romantic notion of making their fortune. They were displaced people and would have gravitated towards, and lived in communities with, other Irish immigrants, thereby keeping cultural practices and ties alive. They may be more scattered now, but people absorb their sense of identity through culture, religion, storytelling and a whole host of other things. There are probably also millions of Americans with Irish or Italian or Scottish roots, whose heritage is no more than a fleeting diversion to them. And that's fair enough too.

Its just culturally a different approach which has been observed. It's not "bothering" me.

it doesn't bother me at all and I don't think I really see the harm in the Irish/Italian/Scottish American thing - ok stereotypes but is it atuallybharming anyone. I just find it odd/noteworthy that you can have 2 people on this planet, who identify so differently based on, I guess, cultural context..I'm much more "Irish" than my colleague is and yet it's a big deal to him and meaningless to me. Then on the other hand you have my thourougly English son who spends so much time watching America YouTubers that he told me the other day that his bag was "in the trunk"! Weird. Humans are weird, and inconsistent 😁

If the bigoted crass stereotypes are about Eastern Europeans it's fine. Other groups who experience this shit it's definitely seen as harmful

I have never heard anyone claim to be German American (which I believe is the largest immigrant group) and I spend a lot of time in the states

I think some national identities as stronger (Irish, Scottish and Italian)

And also seems a new world thing we are an old established country it’s similar in Australia

I find Americans to be far more obsessed with your background than people here they also quickly put you in a box my family is South Asian but the box is Hispanic (we are mainly light skinned) but no one would think here my dad or brother is Hispanic they look Asian

@znaika - But it's not their parents that's the point. It's their several times great grandparent. Conveniently ignoring all the others that weren't the ethnicity they want.

Or perhaps the heritage they identify with was emphasised as it was passed down. So a person with a Greek background married someone from an Irish background. They lived close to the Irish family in an area with many others with an Irish background. The Irish heritage was dominant and the Greek neglected by the time their grandchildren came along and so on.

I do wonder at the phrase 'African American'. Africa is a hugely diverse place and African Americans have little in common with people from any part of it. Still, if the Africans don't object then I don't see what anyone else should.

Because many native Black American ancestors were taken from several parts of Africa for slavery (cheaper than indentured servants) by several European countries, stripped of their cultures so don’t know where they came from in Africa without a dna test. Those who are lucky to know their ancestry are likely ones who immigrated after the 1960s and had children in the US. They wouldn’t call themselves African Americans though because they know where they’re from and some would find it offensive to simply lump them in. It’s one of the reasons many Black cultures hate being lumped together. Some Black Americans refuse to use African Americans and others chose to use it and since they can’t refer to themselves as simply American without issues, that’s what they do despite many of them having ancestors there longer than many of the immigrants who say (insert country) American.

@OhWhyNot

I have never heard anyone claim to be German American (which I believe is the largest immigrant group) and I spend a lot of time in the states

I think some national identities as stronger (Irish, Scottish and Italian)

And also seems a new world thing we are an old established country it’s similar in Australia

I find Americans to be far more obsessed with your background than people here they also quickly put you in a box my family is South Asian but the box is Hispanic (we are mainly light skinned) but no one would think here my dad or brother is Hispanic they look Asian

Again, there are reasons why being explicit about your German-American heritage has been problematic at times during the 20thc — German-Americans experienced prejudice during and after WW2, for instance.

Italians didn’t seem to try to hide the issue though. Trump didn’t mention his dads side of the family’s origins (he did mention his mum - she was an immigrant though - but we said we didn’t want him).

OhWhyNot,

I'm in NZ. There isn't the same sort of Irish identification here at all, even though plenty of Irish people came here, and only a generation ago the Catholic churches were full of Macs and O's.

The big groups who have their own labels are groups from the various Pacific islands (arriving since the 70s) Chinese and Indians (since the 2000s) and of course Maori (got here first).

I got the impression Australia wasn't that different - perhaps I'm wrong? But nothing like the US.

NZ and Australia are very Anglophile - more so than the US - perhaps that has something to do with it.

Yes I realise that recent history will stop some people wanting to claim their German ancestry. But even recently with younger generations especially wanting to claim their ancestry and having a different attitude I have not heard this.

But some countries have much stronger self identities (Italian, Irish, Jamaican, Scottish - if anyone has a great grandparent from these countries you are very soon likely to know Spain, England, Greece not so much) I’m sure there are many other examples

For those who like maps: Largest ancestry by US county

Nb: this is claimed ancestry, rather than actual. Big swathes of Germans.

I assume in Australia the assumption is that you are English unless you identify as being from XYZ (maybe not the case)

Sydney had a St Patrick’s day parade when I was living there

But yes many don’t seem to like the poms (those with a pom accent)