XR are going after the wrong people

[AsAMatterOfMyArse]

And the entire Green movement is too preachy and finger pointy. Plus a bit nihilistic.

Looking at my own life, I don't earn a lot of money and I can't do much to change the world. When folks sit down on the road I'm on to get to my just-over minimum wage job it only makes my life harder when it's hard already. I kind of agree with what they're saying but I can't do anything about it and it makes me stressed when they stop me from getting to work. And yeah I'd like to not have to drive there but I did that for years, getting on buses, and it took a lot of time and a lot of money and I missed out on doing lots of things because I couldn't get to them, and I don't want to go back to that when the enviros aren't giving me a viable option.

I just kind of think they're doing that thing of raising fights against people who are not at the top, like the Tories always want us to do.

Plus they need to wash.

Isn't that insulate Britain? Not extinction rebellion.

And what makes you think they're unwashed? Other than moronic repetition of the daily mail, of course.

They don't look too clean.

They're doing what they believe in. Agree with pp; unwashed comment completely unnecessary

Is what they believe in going to work though if people perceive them to be preachy and hectoring?

Far from being unwashed, I judge them as middle class and rick enough to have days off and not need to worry about pay day. I don't have that privilege. I have to work. I have to drive a diesel (14 year old what I can afford to buy upfront! I have no credit rating nor ability to consider the environment in my choices) I have bit clingfilm because it's £5.99 a medium beeswax wrap in tkmax. When I struggle to feed my family I can't make the environment choices I'd like. Those that can loll about on the toad so confident that they have warmth food and shelter? Who don't give a fuck about the people they hurt? Yeah. The usual rich cunts posturing if you ask me

Yes it would be nice to have the spare time and money to lie around on roads.

it only makes my life harder when it's hard already

You realise what they are trying to do though, right? If you think your life is hard now, wait until the impacts of climate change really start to bite.

Those that can loll about on the toad so confident that they have warmth food and shelter?

Again, once climate change bites, no one will have these things. You think you have it bad now because you can't buy the food you want or you are struggling by 2021 UK standards? There literally will not be any food and we will have mass starvation. Actual starvation, not UK 2021 hunger which usually involves being overweight.

Also not sure why you think this is contrary to their views. You will find most if not all XR/IB protesters are on the left politically, so they are sympathetic to people struggling this way and support increased welfare, increased minimum wage, etc.

Just looked up what IB actually want.

All homes in UK upgraded to be decently insulated.

Well ok so that's to reduce use of energy in colder months heating homes.

Got a few thoughts on that-

Climate change making summers hotter and hotter. UK homes even if old built more to keep heat in than stay cool. Heatwaves getting longer etc. People getting ill dying etc. Those can afford getting air con things. Make homes even hotter? Hmm.

Why don't they focus on eg-
Shops with doors open all time pouring heat out when cold?
Offices?
Pushing for better standards for new builds and renovations?
What about all the pubs heating the outside tables etc? Pleasant but totally bonkers in terms of energy. Ditto all the stuff people are getting in gardens.

What materials are used to insulate? Often chemically. They need to be manufactured- uses energy.

Installing it. Vans whizzing around carrying all the stuff. Some types need machines to eg squirt the foam stuff in.

Not looked at actual aims before. Seems.... Pretty random to me!

I don't agree with Insulate Britain's tactics at all. I think they're doing a lot of damage to the environmental cause.
However I don't see the need to resort to playground name calling. It's so boring every time a protestor is called unwashed.

I agree with their message, I completely disagree with their tactics. Glueing yourself to the road and holding up normal people trying to go about their day and get to work etc just isn't going to get those people on side.
I spent 3 months driving to see my BIL in a London hospital, him in a coma and expected to die, most of those trips (or the trips home to go to work for the night) being held up in traffic because some privileged, middle-aged numpty had glued himself to the sodding tarmac

@AsAMatterOfMyArse

They don't look too clean.

I can understand why tactics are getting more disruptive, because asking politely doesn't work.

The situation is now critical, but nothing is being done. It's so frustrating, depressing.

It's much more effective that a lot of people take a little effort to tackle the climate emergency than a small amount of people do a lot.

Everyone can take simple steps: buy food with less packaging, recycle, switch off lights if you are not in the room, take 2 minutes less to have a shower, stop over consumption of plastic toys (from China), reduce use of single use products etc

If EVERYONE did this, it would make a MASSIVE difference and none of it is difficult. The potential future is that we will be forced to live differently and it will be difficult.

I don’t even get their aims- if it’s your house surely the insulation is your cost and if it’s a council home, for many insulation is pretty low down on the to do list. Do they think tax payers really want to pay to insulate council homes- it’s not a vote earner

@JamMakingWannaBe

It's much more effective that a lot of people take a little effort to tackle the climate emergency than a small amount of people do a lot.

Everyone can take simple steps: buy food with less packaging, recycle, switch off lights if you are not in the room, take 2 minutes less to have a shower, stop over consumption of plastic toys (from China), reduce use of single use products etc

If EVERYONE did this, it would make a MASSIVE difference and none of it is difficult. The potential future is that we will be forced to live differently and it will be difficult.

I went into a shop without packaging once- everything was pretty much double to triple the price of a supermarket with packaging, Ultimately I cannot afford to shop like that.

You can take your own Tupperware to be filled at the deli counter in most supermarkets now. It's not about changing where you shop but more about shopping habits. Years ago, we all got free supermarket carrier bags - now we all have to pay for a bag or take our own reusable one. A small, in this example, financial penalty changed habits. Unfortunately these penalties are no longer going to be small and for a lot of people are going to be unaffordable. Who can afford to upgrade their car to an electric or duel fuel for low emission areas?

@JamMakingWannaBe people to take their containers to the deli counter? You assume that people on minimum wages have enough money to be able to afford Parma ham, Machengo cheese and sundried tomatoes, right?

That’s the thing with Insulate Britain: it’d full of wealthy individuals that instead of going to the Houses (lords/commons), Prime Ministers residence and lovenests or every other massive corporation’s HQ), they make life difficult for Joe and Jo Bloggs on minimum wage driving a clapped out non-eco car because the latest Electric car costs 2 years rent.
It’s so nice speaking from a place of privilege.
I personally find IB odious individuals that do more harm than good to the eco causes.

@JamMakingWannaBe

You can take your own Tupperware to be filled at the deli counter in most supermarkets now. It's not about changing where you shop but more about shopping habits. Years ago, we all got free supermarket carrier bags - now we all have to pay for a bag or take our own reusable one. A small, in this example, financial penalty changed habits. Unfortunately these penalties are no longer going to be small and for a lot of people are going to be unaffordable. Who can afford to upgrade their car to an electric or duel fuel for low emission areas?

But you see I don’t buy from Delhi counters or fish counters etc because it’s still more expensive than the packaged stuff or Aldi. Sad because I would like to stop the packaging but supermarkets or the government have to make it affordable- penalising people for doing the right thing builds resentment. Ulez completely screwed my family over financially as we live next to the south circular- I’m bitter!

Also wouldn't you need a car to drive home a foods shop worth of filled containers as opposed to not having a car and having shopping delivered?

@OnlyFoolsnMothers I had to not take a job offer as my options for travel were trains tickets that were coming up to £24 per day (and 4 hours door2door commute) or ULEZ and car costs because right now I can’t afford an eco car and small car is not ideal for my job.
And I expect it’d be carnage in London. My friend living just on the ulez borders in Ealing was asked by a random person if she was willing to rent her empty driveway during the working week. I expect the traffic and mess will be spread just outside the ulez ring.

Not sure you did your argument any favours with the ‘unwashed’ stereotype OP!

I think the environmental message is a difficult one because a lot of what is being pushed for feels expensive and unrealistic to the average person - plus there’s a sense that you could never quite do enough. This might be why the movement feels ‘preachy’ to you OP- the message needs to be forceful or it’ll be ignored. Perhaps the thing to do is to learn about it, and what you can personally do, gradually.

You say XR are going after the wrong people- what should they do instead? (I don’t have an answer to this, but your OP title suggests that you do, so am interested).

You are mixing g up IB with XR. XR specifically want government and big business to change and are very clear that while it's great for individuals to do small every day actions (because it creates markets, demonstrates concerns etc), it is not what will actually prevent the damage. Perhaps do the tiniest bit of research?

Just looked up what IB actually want.

All homes in UK upgraded to be decently insulated.

Well ok so that's to reduce use of energy in colder months heating homes.

Got a few thoughts on that

Climate change making summers hotter and hotter. UK homes even if old built more to keep heat in than stay cool. Heatwaves getting longer etc. People getting ill dying etc. Those can afford getting air con things. Make homes even hotter? Hmm.

@NiceGerbil yes…a well insulated home would take longer to cool in summer, if it got warm. But a well insulated home would also keep heat out, so the house doesn’t warm up as quickly/as much. Insulation reduces the transfer of heat, that works if outside is hot or cold - oversimplification but like a thermos flask keeps hot drinks hot in cold weather and cold drinks cold in warm weather. You’d need to consider ways to keep the sun coming in through the windows of course.

[quote Henrysmycat]@OnlyFoolsnMothers I had to not take a job offer as my options for travel were trains tickets that were coming up to £24 per day (and 4 hours door2door commute) or ULEZ and car costs because right now I can’t afford an eco car and small car is not ideal for my job.
And I expect it’d be carnage in London. My friend living just on the ulez borders in Ealing was asked by a random person if she was willing to rent her empty driveway during the working week. I expect the traffic and mess will be spread just outside the ulez ring.[/quote]
This is why I wish groups would campaign for more affordable travel not just keep penalising car users-

They do not target China they do not target Russia the do not target India. They do not protest outside these countries embassies, consulates. They are racist / xenophobic.