To be utterly disappointed, but not surprised at uni sexual assault levels

[emptyempire]

Has anyone else seen this article today and found it an unbearable read...

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/oct/29/research-reveals-rapes-and-assaults-admitted-to-by-male-uk-students

Surely, there's something we're doing badly wrong with our boys from a young age if circa 10% grow up to be sexual deviants?

Depressing!

That was my thought too, what in earth has gone since horribly wrong that these men, and it is almost always men think that women are so disposable. It's really terrifying

@NannyOggsWhiskyStash

That was my thought too, what in earth has gone since horribly wrong that these men, and it is almost always men think that women are so disposable. It's really terrifying

It really is!

We have to recognise how toxic masculinity starts and do something about it when we still have chance to positively influence our boys.

And don't even get me started on rape conviction rates.

It's a shitshow!

Access to online hardcore porn from a very young age combined with little to no education about relationships (as opposed to sex) in both schools and in families.

Massive impact and detrimental effect.

Totally skews the idea of what healthy boundaries, sex and relationships look like.

@IPokeBadgers

Access to online hardcore porn from a very young age combined with little to no education about relationships (as opposed to sex) in both schools and in families.

Massive impact and detrimental effect.

Totally skews the idea of what healthy boundaries, sex and relationships look like.

I agree that it's education on relationships and respect that needs prioritising.

When you read all the DV and abuse stories on MN, it tells us a bit about how often boys (and girls!) are witnessing damaging behaviour and relationship dynamics in their homes from an early age.

This is such a fundamental flaw in our victim-blaming society. Hard to tackle when the 'it's not all men' brigade see that as a reason not to educate all.

Depressing but not surprising. I agree with IPokeBadgers that porn is part of the problem.

@RiojaRose

Depressing but not surprising. I agree with IPokeBadgers that porn is part of the problem.

Grim, isn't it? Unfortunately most children have their own devices and know more about the internet than their parents by secondary age, so parental controls are largely ineffective at preventing porn use.

You'd think devices bought for children wouldn't be able to access it. It all needs rethinking.

*shouldn't

Oh, just the 4 of us disappointed at the volume of rapey young men then

As you were...

I don't think it is just young men with the rapey attitudes, I think the internet has skewed a lot of older men and their attitudes to women/sex/relationships as well.... I have single friends in their 40s and some of the dating stories I've heard have been beyond grim in terms bedroom behaviours and expectations, even at v early stages in the relationships.

Then add in online echo chambers, where even the most repugnant attitudes and opinions can be affirmed and reinforced, and it can all be viewed as quite depressing.

I don't know what the answer is. Misogyny has always existed and always will. I don't have kids and won't be having any, and I'm glad I don't have to try and navigate any children/young people through some of the truly grim parts of society as it is today.

@IPokeBadgers

I don't think it is just young men with the rapey attitudes, I think the internet has skewed a lot of older men and their attitudes to women/sex/relationships as well.... I have single friends in their 40s and some of the dating stories I've heard have been beyond grim in terms bedroom behaviours and expectations, even at v early stages in the relationships.

Then add in online echo chambers, where even the most repugnant attitudes and opinions can be affirmed and reinforced, and it can all be viewed as quite depressing.

I don't know what the answer is. Misogyny has always existed and always will. I don't have kids and won't be having any, and I'm glad I don't have to try and navigate any children/young people through some of the truly grim parts of society as it is today.

I agree with this and that it is men of all ages, I was only referring to young men, because it was students who took part in this particular survey.

Misogyny and deviance are rife and society generally seems to have no appetite to attempt to change that. Patriarchy has a lot to answer for and it looks like it will be our norm ad infinitum

@IPokeBadgers

I don't think it is just young men with the rapey attitudes, I think the internet has skewed a lot of older men and their attitudes to women/sex/relationships as well.... I have single friends in their 40s and some of the dating stories I've heard have been beyond grim in terms bedroom behaviours and expectations, even at v early stages in the relationships.

Then add in online echo chambers, where even the most repugnant attitudes and opinions can be affirmed and reinforced, and it can all be viewed as quite depressing.

I don't know what the answer is. Misogyny has always existed and always will. I don't have kids and won't be having any, and I'm glad I don't have to try and navigate any children/young people through some of the truly grim parts of society as it is today.

This sums it up. Also, one of the biggest reasons I don’t children, having to worry if they we’re a girl.

I think porn , either directly or indirectly, has skewed the boundaries of young women as well. They have been taught that if XYZ has happened then they don’t seem to have the right to say no. I have a relative who works in student services in a large U.K. uni, often dealing with complaints of sexual assault especially where the victim doesn’t want to report the incident to the police. She’s a bit horrified at how blurred the boundaries around consent seem to be - young males pushing on and not listening, and young women not feeling able to say no because they’ve accepted a drink, or they’ve agreed to go back to his place, or they’ve already snogged him or whatever. Consent is so poorly understood on both sides.

Alcohol is a huge factor for students as well.

Its always happened just not reported. Young woman blaming themselves that they were too drunk so they must have consented. Vulnerable girls away from home. Passed out at house parties to find they have had sex. It was brushed under the carpet when I was at uni.

I get peer pressure and all that ...but at this age its no more powerful than someone encouraging them to steal a car or rob a bank. So not to put the blame completely on mothers since it takes a village but how do youngish men grow up (mostly having mothers) and think this is behavior towards girls is still ok in this day and age?

Because society tolerates it.

‘ Hales said the findings suggested that UK universities should appoint staff to work with sexually aggressive students who are banned from campus – but later return – to reduce the risk of them re-offending.’

I get that it’s hard to prove many sexual assaults. But I’m sorry - why are sexually aggressive people being let back on campus? Just kick them out.

Maybe when other would-be offenders see that they won’t get a degree if they misbehave, then they wouldn’t do it. Similar with drink driving and parking offences.

I have three daughters and it terrifies me.

My eldest is 13 and is certainly she’s a lesbian, but this doesn’t mean she won’t be assaulted by someone.

I’ve firmly hammered home that rapists rape because they want to, not because of anything she has or hasn’t done, is or is not wearing.

I then had to give my ex a bollocking because he told her to cover up - it was summer, she was wearing a long crop top and high waisted jeans. I told him that if men were leering, then shouldn’t he be saying something to them rather than victim blaming? It’s the attitude of the fathers that needs to change too.

I'm a lecturer and am not at all surprised. The level to aggression (not sexual) and lack of respect for any of the female staff from many of the male ug students is alarming and I am often fearful of meeting them - covid has been a good thing in that respect. I wouldn't be surprised if the spilled into sexual aggression with their peers.

@Santastuckincustoms

I'm a lecturer and am not at all surprised. The level to aggression (not sexual) and lack of respect for any of the female staff from many of the male ug students is alarming and I am often fearful of meeting them - covid has been a good thing in that respect. I wouldn't be surprised if the spilled into sexual aggression with their peers.

I’m 35 and a second year UG, I’ve overheard some horrific comments from the teenage boys and have pulled them up on it every single time. I’m not surprised.

@Namenic

Because society tolerates it.

‘ Hales said the findings suggested that UK universities should appoint staff to work with sexually aggressive students who are banned from campus – but later return – to reduce the risk of them re-offending.’

I get that it’s hard to prove many sexual assaults. But I’m sorry - why are sexually aggressive people being let back on campus? Just kick them out.

I get how big a problem 'society' is but we mothers are part of society too. How are mothers allowing their boys to grow up like this?

Just as women on here are saying what they are teaching daughters, what are mothers saying to their sons from when they are small to counter this..??. It's not the whole picture but its part of it.

@testerwiki I’d wager their Dads attitudes plays a bigger part than their mothers

@Hankunamatata

Its always happened just not reported. Young woman blaming themselves that they were too drunk so they must have consented. Vulnerable girls away from home. Passed out at house parties to find they have had sex. It was brushed under the carpet when I was at uni.

I completly agree with this. I was drugged and rapped in uni. I always thought because I didnt say no untill he was inside me ( the one bit I do remeber) that It was my fault. I had gone back to the party it was his house..... I'm now a uni lecturer and know about the massive increase in spiking. The difference is my students talk about it. They even talk to their lecturers about it. I hope this is a sign that in the past 15 years women are being more open/ aware.

[quote BurntTheFuckOut]@testerwiki I’d wager their Dads attitudes plays a bigger part than their mothers[/quote]
As mothers we have extraordinary power. And (pandemic aside) mothers typically spend more time with kids than many fathers.

Why do Dad's attitudes play a bigger part? Its not automatic.

It should start at kindergarten when boys first get handsy. Just like all the other training that starts then and when Mothers have a LOT of say in things.

Could it be we have mother's & fathers bringing up boys who think its just boys being boys ... while mothers bringing up daughters are terrified for their girls??

As mothers we have extraordinary power.

Up to a point. When they are little, yes we have a lot of influence. But as boys grow up their gaze shifts to other men - to their fathers, to other male relatives, to friends and peers at school. To men they see on YouTube and tv and film. I can see it in my son who’s nearly 14. Yes, I had huge influence over him when he was little and I’m crossing everything that the lessons I taught him about listening, respecting, believing what other people are telling him about how his actions affect them, are sticking. But they are now up against a whole tidal wave of misogynistic, toxic ideas that are coming at him from every side, and I can’t control that. I can only keep the lines of communication open and try to help him stand up to it.

Most if his closest friends are girls, I hope that’s a good sign.

@workwoes123

As mothers we have extraordinary power.

Up to a point. When they are little, yes we have a lot of influence. But as boys grow up their gaze shifts to other men - to their fathers, to other male relatives, to friends and peers at school. To men they see on YouTube and tv and film. I can see it in my son who’s nearly 14. Yes, I had huge influence over him when he was little and I’m crossing everything that the lessons I taught him about listening, respecting, believing what other people are telling him about how his actions affect them, are sticking. But they are now up against a whole tidal wave of misogynistic, toxic ideas that are coming at him from every side, and I can’t control that. I can only keep the lines of communication open and try to help him stand up to it.

Most if his closest friends are girls, I hope that’s a good sign.

Yes, I agree, mothers do have extraordinary power, esp when little, but it is mostly men who are boys' role models.

And if the men they look up to treat women badly, that will undoubtably be passed on.

Almost every woman I know has been sexually assaulted in some way, I'd imagine that the ratio of perpetrators is even higher than that study found.