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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think talking about money isn't always a bad thing?

26 replies

RacketeerRalph · 29/10/2021 10:12

Particularly to young people?

I don't mean in a braggy way. I mean in a realistic "this is how much stuff costs" way.

For example, my youngest brother (18) was asking why we drive a crappy car. He pays £450 per month for his fancy one, surely we can afford that? I explained that whilst DH and both earn a good income, our mortgage is X, childcare is Y, our house needs work (e.g. new kitchen, so told him how much that was likely to cost). He genuinely had no idea how much mortgages and childcare are. He's considering what he wants to do in the future and isn't sure whether he wants to go to uni (fair enough) but isn't feeling like he wants to do an apprenticeship either, and is a bit lost. He's clear about the material things in life he wants but I think not knowing how you realistically pay for that doesn't help people make decisions!

Don't get me wrong, I don't think uni is the be all and end all, but knowing how much deposit you need for a house, how mortgages work & how they are costed/ approved and how much certain types of professions make would help surely!

Same brother was saying that my other brother's (A) house was "a bit crap" but "not as crap as [sister]". Again, with no real idea of how much home ownership costs. A was put out by this (as you would be), so I suggested he explain how ridiculously expensive it was and how difficult it is to save after paying rent and bills etc. A was a bit reticent but after consideration did so and again baby brother was shocked.

So AIBU that discussing money, finances and real life costs shouldn't be the taboo it is?

OP posts:
GoodGrief100 · 29/10/2021 10:21

I agree - it's entirely reasonable and responsible to discuss money in this situation, especially given your brother seems to be very snobby and judgmental about other people's homes and possessions without having any idea about 'real life'. He seems quite childish and naive - so explain away to him!

Deliaskis · 29/10/2021 10:27

I agree it's a really good idea to talk to young people about money and how much things cost from quite an early age, and just where all the money goes every month does astound people who haven't yet moved out of home I think. This shouldn't be taboo at all, and I think it's doing young people a disservice not to help them understand this stuff.

Having said that, I think to have reached 18 and not realised some of these things (and to comment on it in such a way) is a bit unusual I think. DD is 10 and a couple of years ago when she made a quite innocent comment about someone else's car or house, we started to talk about different people spending their money on different things, earning different amounts, having different size families etc, and that what's important is having a warm safe home with food in the table, hopefully with people you love, not necessarily fancy carpet and shiny kitchen units. I'd be a bit disappointed (and feel I'd let her down) if she reached 18 and had no understanding of this, but also, thought it was alright to comment on it.

Realise you're talking about your brother and not your own child so I'm not criticising! I just think there were actually two different issues in your post... the lack of understanding of money, but then also the notion that it's OK to say someone's house is not very nice... it's kind of a different thing IMO.

RacketeerRalph · 29/10/2021 10:30

Deliaskis my parents are quite closed about finances. Everything was either "too expensive" or "none of my business" growing up, I expect it's similar for my brother (he was a toddler when I left home). We did get taught that people prioritise things differently but no idea of how much a house costs or ongoing costs, an average salary etc.

OP posts:
Wilma55 · 29/10/2021 10:34

How does he afford his car? Is he living at home rent free?

Topseyt · 29/10/2021 10:39

I think it is perfectly reasonable to discuss money in this way and make him aware.

An 18 year old is perfectly capable of understanding that money doesn't grow on trees. They also need to understand how their comments can come across and how they can make other people feel. They need to grasp too that people have varying priorities for varying reasons throughout their lives and should that they should not be too judgemental about it.

Most 18 year olds are very capable of understanding all of this although some may still need reminding or prompting, like your brother seems to.

It can be just a lack of life experience too, but he needs to learn to keep his mouth shut.

purpledagger · 29/10/2021 10:44

Funnily enough, I've been thinking about this myself recently in relation to our children. I sent DS11 to the shop to buy something, thinking he'd buy the 2 for £1 we normally get. He came back with 1 packet for 80p. Yes, the packet sizes were different, but I needed these specific items.

Danikm151 · 29/10/2021 10:46

My friends and I are open about money.
When my cousin's kids ask me about money things-ages 8-13 I tell them honestly. It helps with understanding and empathy.

VladmirsPoutine · 29/10/2021 10:47

It's very important to speak to young people about finances / money and all that. I think even as adults we'd do ourselves a world of good by openly talking about salaries, rent and that sort of thing.

DillonPanthersTexas · 29/10/2021 10:48

I was always astonished how many of the young grads at my company would sign up to crazy car lease schemes forking out £400+ a month for the privilege of driving a flash car they are never ever going to own. These were the same folk buying lunch and several coffees a day and sporting the latest phones and fashionwear. Obviously they can spend their money how they want but it did seem odd to me. I know what salaries they are on and while they are not bad it certainly can't afford the lifestyles they are trying to adopt so can only assume they are living on credit and monthly repayment schemes. These were the same people who when in their late 20s were scratching their heads wondering why they are still in a flat share while the grads who were driving to work in a beat up £800 Fiesta and made a pack lunch were picking up keys to their first flat.

RacketeerRalph · 29/10/2021 10:49

@Wilma55

How does he afford his car? Is he living at home rent free?
I assume so. He does have a job and does live at home. No idea if he says rent.
OP posts:
purpledagger · 29/10/2021 10:49

.... it made me think that I need teach them more about money and budgeting.

Deliaskis · 29/10/2021 10:50

@RacketeerRalph

Deliaskis my parents are quite closed about finances. Everything was either "too expensive" or "none of my business" growing up, I expect it's similar for my brother (he was a toddler when I left home). We did get taught that people prioritise things differently but no idea of how much a house costs or ongoing costs, an average salary etc.
Yes you see I do think that's quite unhelpful, how do young people ever learn? Having said that, I do acknowledge it's quite hard to provide the context....we recently had a house extension and there was quite a lot of chat at home about finances and moving money from one account to another and where different parts were being paid from....and DD has since started to ask now and again how much money we have in the bank. When we tell her it clearly sounds like LOADS to her (I think anything more than about £100 would!) but then it becomes very dull when you start to explain where it goes, and to make it not sound like a telling off....yes we have to pay for electricity, but I'm not saying sit there in the dark!
HeyArnoldHey · 29/10/2021 10:52

Omg £450 ?! Is it a Range Rover Shock shocked anyone would spend that it's mad money!

Yes teens don't live in the real world and I was the same haha

HalfShrunkMoreToGo · 29/10/2021 10:56

My DD is 7, last week when we were at the supermarket I picked up a couple of new coats for us and said, we've spent more before we even get to the food than we usually do for the whole shop. She said that OK mum just get a credit card if you run out of money like they do on telly. So we had an enlightening chat as we walked around the food aisles about interest rates, debt and earning money 😂

I think talking about money management is really important, I want her to understand it so she can make informed decisions when she has to manage her own.

user1497207191 · 29/10/2021 11:07

It's essential and part of being a parent to "teach" your children about money. Whether they listen and take it on board is a different matter entirely. My parents talked to me about money from an early age and we did the same with our son.

Not in a negative "we can't afford it" kind of way, but with logic, i.e. "would you prefer to spend your pocket money on something like sweets or comics where you have nothing to show for it or would you prefer to save it and buy something you'll value that will last for a long time?" I used to save my pocket money to buy model railways, and my son (even when young) saved significant amounts from pocket money, birthdays & christmas to buy things like wii/xbox games, an iPad, replica football kit, etc.

Now he's 20 and he's got a very responsible attitude to money, now he's at Uni. He got a decent amount of money (from an inheritance in trust) at aged 18, and we're proud that he's not wasted any of it - it's mostly still sat in the bank. There's nothing he'd like more than to buy a car with it (he'd fed up of driving our old banger we gave him), but he also knows he's going to need money for relocating for his first job after Uni (almost inevitably he'll be moving to London/SE which is where the jobs are), so will need money for a rental flat deposit, probably a car, and ultimately a deposit to buy a flat/house. So his ambition is to keep at least 75% of his inheritance, the other 25% being drip-fed over 3 years for living costs etc whilst at Uni to avoid taking out full student loan debts.

But even with that kind of mature attitude, he can still "waste" money on small things and, to give him his due, he knows when he makes mistakes and tries not to repeat. For example, at first, he'd go to the campus convenience store and buy 4 ready meals, that were actually 3 for a fiver. He couldn't explain why he bought 4 rather than just 3 to get the offer and then buy another 3 a day or two earlier next time. But he's never done that since! Another "cost cutting" thing he now does is do everything in town on the same day, so he can just buy a "dayrider" bus ticket and do his main supermarket shop on the same day he goes to watch a football match and have his McDonald's tea on the way back - at first, he'd do all that on three different days thus buying three separate dayrider bus tickets.

Having said all that, he's not averse to paying through the nose for things that matter to him, i.e. he'll think nothing of paying close to £100 for replica football shirt, but for him, that's important and he values them (he's literally got half a wardrobe full of them, all in pristine condition, going back years!).

What I can't explain is why me and my brother are so different. We both had the same parents, both had the same upbringing, but whilst I'm highly debt averse, he's tens of thousands in debt and has been all his life, and has little to show for it - he got every credit card/store card going from a very young age (back when easy credit first became commonplace in the 80s), never pays anymore than the minimum balance and pays, literally, hundreds of pounds of interest every month. All gone on disposable clothing, gadgets he uses no more than a handful of times. I don't know how he sleeps at night, but he just doesn't seem to care.

Imnothereforthedrama · 29/10/2021 11:08

That’s madness to me spending £100s on a car does that include insurance too? cause that’s sky high at that age . It’s all about image at that age , fancy car , latest phone , clothes all on credit though . The apprentice at my work walking about in trainers that are £500 . I know another teen not passed her driving test but already signed up to a brand new car on finance that’s not even been made yet . I was driving around in a crappy car for years but I had a mortgage from my late teens .

thetittifer · 29/10/2021 11:12

Yes and i also think when discussing career choices that their is an effect certain careers can have on your lifestyle. So discussing things like shift work, number of hours per week, overtime, flexi time etc. I think this would help young people make a more informed decision about what lifestyle they want rather than an idealised view of say nursing for example, many young people want to help others but from reading on MN about their job it definitely seems to take it's toll.

Tbf i got no career advice and went to uni because that's what everyone i knew was doing 🤷‍♀️ i think i would have thrived doing something more practical but at 17/18 I genuinely didn't have a clue what jobs existed

thetittifer · 29/10/2021 11:16

*there

Bavarois · 29/10/2021 11:18

I don't think it is taboo within family, is it? It sounds like it was in yours OP but I don't think that's the norm. I've always run things past my dad before making big financial decisions. I have a few friends who have had generous financial gifts towards house deposits etc from their parents. I think most people are quite open about finances within their immediate family group, especially in their teens and 20s. It gets more difficult when partners are involved.

I reeeally hate when friends discuss money though. Again, it felt okay in my 20s when we were all starting out and learning how to navigate salaries and mortgage rates. In my 30s it feels tacky.

RacketeerRalph · 29/10/2021 11:25

@Bavarois

I don't think it is taboo within family, is it? It sounds like it was in yours OP but I don't think that's the norm. I've always run things past my dad before making big financial decisions. I have a few friends who have had generous financial gifts towards house deposits etc from their parents. I think most people are quite open about finances within their immediate family group, especially in their teens and 20s. It gets more difficult when partners are involved.

I reeeally hate when friends discuss money though. Again, it felt okay in my 20s when we were all starting out and learning how to navigate salaries and mortgage rates. In my 30s it feels tacky.

I think it depends. Talking about finances can feel tacky (I have a different thread running on that!) But for example in DHs company there's huge discrepancies in how much people of the same level are paid - the company thrives on discussing salaries being taboo but there's literally a 33% difference between the bottom paid mid level team member and the highest paid (that's about a £20k difference). I'm NHS so if you know my banding you can easily see my rough salary and that of my colleagues. So it may feel tacky but it can prevent people being unfairly paid due.
OP posts:
Pashazade · 29/10/2021 11:27

I found this book an interesting read (albeit very American). I find it hard to be completely open about money as I've got the reticence of not wanting my child to repeat figures to friends, but really there is no reason he shouldn't understand or be told, so I do my best to honest with him. But equally I've been blunt about cancelling subscriptions that aren't getting used/made and made it clear that it is a cost/value equation.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Opposite-Spoiled-Raising-Grounded-Generous-ebook/dp/B00KAC65PW/ref=sr11_1?crid=3CCKG3JNFS708&dchild=1&keywords=opposite+of+spoiled&qid=1635502942&qsid=262-5513988-3714424&sprefix=Opposite+of+spo%2Caps%2C76&sr=8-1&sres=B079DHM39Y%2CB0741G93F4%2CB0155M7WBC%2CB00EDYGDUK%2CB09JBKLJGY%2CB09BGM17NF%2C1950165213%2CB08L3NHJ88%2CB01D5JQO6Q%2CB091W44GLD%2C194244480X%2CB00LNQ74CM%2C4805314036%2CB081FDMHFK%2C1728210488%2CB06VVK6DMJ

user1497207191 · 29/10/2021 11:28

@thetittifer

Yes and i also think when discussing career choices that their is an effect certain careers can have on your lifestyle. So discussing things like shift work, number of hours per week, overtime, flexi time etc. I think this would help young people make a more informed decision about what lifestyle they want rather than an idealised view of say nursing for example, many young people want to help others but from reading on MN about their job it definitely seems to take it's toll.

Tbf i got no career advice and went to uni because that's what everyone i knew was doing 🤷‍♀️ i think i would have thrived doing something more practical but at 17/18 I genuinely didn't have a clue what jobs existed

That's another good point.

We had a few conversations with our son about careers throughout his teen years. He went through a phase of wanting to be an engineer, and we pointed out that he'd almost certainly have to move, maybe abroad, to the relatively few places where the big engineering firms/projects were located, i.e. he was thinking about nuclear physics so we pointed out that the work would be in the remotely located nuclear power stations or research labs etc and that he could well find himself relocating during his working life quite long distances. His current career path is banking/finance so we pointed out the jobs would be in the major cities (if not London itself) so, again, relocation would be required if he wanted a top job.

Then we've pointed out the kinds of jobs that are in literally every town and city, i.e. doctor, teacher, accountant, solicitor, surveyor, architect, etc. which would be more suitable if he didn't want to live in a big city and/or didn't want to relocate.

He'd not thought about any of that himself and I think it has changed his views over time as to the pros/cons of different types of job as regards where he'd be happy living and whether short/long term.

ThelmaMadine · 29/10/2021 11:28

I agree with you, OP.

I also think it’s super important that women talk about money and earnings.

You see it so often on Mumsnet where there’s a discussion about salary, and disbelief, near disdain, for what people earn in high-paying jobs.

Girls should know that not only boys can grow up to have “big” jobs.

flotsomandjetsome · 29/10/2021 11:29

Chatting to DD this week (as our annual mortgage statement arrived) I explained mortgages, and the differences between that & renting.

DDs response was that 'stuff like that' really should be included in PSHRE, along with how to budget and basic financial info like bank accounts & insurance. She said much more useful than self defence and gender bollocks!

I agreed but said that unfortunately schools don't have time to do all that, and that really is a parents job - but I know some kids never get that guidance.

NotMyCat · 29/10/2021 11:37

My colleague pays that for a car. Yet rents. In a cheap area, both on good wages, and his mortgage would be like £350pm if that
Yet he would rather pay £450 for a car and rent which confuses me - his car was fine previously

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