to think Taylor Swift is our century's answer to William Shakespeare

[beastlyslumber]

She's such an incredible storyteller and lyricist (and her songs are ridiculously catchy. It's all about the hooks.) Listening to her album 'folkore' this afternoon - she wrote two whole albums in lockdown, you know. And they're both great, but 'folklore' is insanely good. As she moves away from autobiographical writing into character stories, her storytelling is getting even more emotionally direct, and even more fun. She's a total genius. Even on the rare occasions when her hooks and melodies don't grip you, her lyrics always get right to the heart of things.

If there's any justice in the world, Ms Swift will still be celebrated in 500 years for her original, moving, funny, perceptive and subversive writing.

YANBU = Obviously! She is the Bard of Pop
YABU = WTF? She's way better than Shakespeare

YABU granted I haven’t heard much of her music but I don’t like her personality as she plays a character and is very two-faced.

So on her personality alone I voted YABU

Gosh people are snobs aren't they.

I don't love her music but appreciate her cultural significance and yes she's a great song writer.

Jay Z has written some brilliant lyrics. As has Kanye. In fact a lot of hip hop is very clever if you dig down a bit - double and triple meanings often drawing on much older music or art or whatever, comments on politics presented in an entirely new way.

Lily Allen good too. Lots of good writers about.

@WonderfulYou

YABU granted I haven’t heard much of her music but I don’t like her personality as she plays a character and is very two-faced.

So on her personality alone I voted YABU

Who isn't playing a character?

Not sure you understood the voting options

To the PP who said Ryan Adams cover of Style was very good - yes, that's the best one I think. He managed to make Bad Blood sound like Wonderwall but that it's still quite good!

Re Eminem

I don't know a lot of his work but ironically, Stan is genius

Also, the Real Slim Shady is bloody brilliant. I haven't seen 8 mile but I probably should.

And just to add it's often the snobbiest who are the most stupid - unable to see a connection with how Shakespeare was viewed with how they're talking about contemporary writers here. Unable to see meaning where there is plenty instead quoting lyrics they have decided are vacuous filler. Does my nut in. They never look clever though - they seem incapable of thought and are missing out on discovering new things.

And yes to pp on Eminem. Another good one

Standing in a white dress staring at the sunset and 22! Are the only lyrics of hers that I can remember off the top of my head 🤔

@DaisyNGO, it was a very long time ago but the more dissecting we did the more depressing the song got. It's weird I can still remember it.

That said, I just like to read a book for reading's sake, not making notes in the margins and writing huge chunks of it out and endlessly analysing every single word. So English Lit was not my favourite subject.

Genius thread OP
Now thinking of the lyrics to Kanye "no church in the wild"

I don't have to stan to appreciate good lyrics and storytelling 😀

@WonderfulYou

YABU granted I haven’t heard much of her music but I don’t like her personality as she plays a character and is very two-faced.

So on her personality alone I voted YABU

Know her personally do you? A celebrity having a public persona is hardly shocking, and while anything about her being “very two-faced” may be true (I have absolutely no idea) I imagine you’re basing it off gossip articles and rumour?

It also, actually, isn’t relevant to her songwriting. Shakespeare is rumoured to have cheated on his wife but I rarely hear that used against him.

I have of late, (but wherefore I know not) lost all my mirth, forgone all custom of exercises; and indeed, it goes so heavily with my disposition; that this goodly frame the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory; this most excellent canopy the air, look you, this brave o'er hanging firmament, this majestical roof, fretted with golden fire: why, it appeareth no other thing to me, than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours. What a piece of work is man, How noble in reason, how infinite in faculty, In form and moving how express and admirable, In action how like an Angel, In apprehension how like a god, The beauty of the world, The paragon of animals. And yet to me, what is this quintessence of dust?

The posters who think Shakespeare is unworthy of comparison with anyone as lowly as Taylor swift are the same people who had a sign at their wedding saying ‘when I saw you I fell in love, and you smiled because you knew: William Shakespeare’.

So on her personality alone I voted YABU

Did you read what the YABU vote means? @WonderfulYou

Welcome to the club

So on her personality alone I voted YABU

Oh fgs, where's your reading comprehension?

[quote Sparklingbrook]@DaisyNGO, it was a very long time ago but the more dissecting we did the more depressing the song got. It's weird I can still remember it.

That said, I just like to read a book for reading's sake, not making notes in the margins and writing huge chunks of it out and endlessly analysing every single word. So English Lit was not my favourite subject.[/quote]
Yes, I didn't read a fiction book for ages after A level, all that analysis was too much.

I guess it's fun as part of chat and less so as essay format.

I do like Eleanor Rigby though
Even surrounded by people

The face in the jar, by the door

Who is it for? I think it's for the individual who in turn will become ashes to ashes, dust to dust...tis a tale told by an idiot etc etc

But we can enjoy listening to Taylor, or reading Tagore while we are here

My mum is also someone who doesn't really get the modern bard concept. But she also doesn't think how Shakespeare would have been performed or that he would have written for TV now.

I am not sure about an unworthy comparison, just an odd one maybe?

Two words, Justin Currie. I am an old gimmer, though.

Sick "A celebrity having a public persona is hardly shocking, and while anything about her being “very two-faced” may be true (I have absolutely no idea) I imagine you’re basing it off gossip articles and rumour?"

"The rumours
Are terrible and cruel
But honey, most of them are true" 😂

We need a gif for this!

Shakespeare copied 90% of his story ideas from much better Middle Eastern and Asian poets / storytellers. And the details of his stories were often lifted from European literature. The reason why he is even relevant is because he was British and invented a few words (and Britain practically colonised the whole world). If anything the people who remake stories or films (or music) are the most appropriate comparisons.

@2phat2phaf

Two words, Justin Currie. I am an old gimmer, though.

I had to look him up I loved Move Away, Jimmy Blue

Particularly relevant as I am now trying to move back to that small town...l

I just can't hear anything catchy in her songs at all.

The reason why he is even relevant is because he was British and invented a few words (and Britain practically colonised the whole world).

I love it when people just lay out their ignorance for all to see 😂

So I don't even reach knowing the lyrics let alone being able to analyse them.

I would say rappers like Eminem, Dre, Jay-Z, Missy Elliotc Nicki Minhaj etc etc are probably more talented than Shakespeare

@TheKeatingFive

The reason why he is even relevant is because he was British and invented a few words (and Britain practically colonised the whole world).

I love it when people just lay out their ignorance for all to see 😂

Begin by reading the silk route and you will find the root of your own ignorance. The worst thing that happened to literature was White colonialism.

@KrispyKale

I just can't hear anything catchy in her songs at all.

I don't think she writes with the intention of creating catchy songs. Obviously there are some exceptions like Shake It Off, but I feel telling a story through her lyrics is more important to her than catchy lyrics.