To be shocked that 16 year old didn't know about apartheid

[biddlybop]

Recently, I was having a conversation with a teen in the family and mentioned apartheid (think we were talking about films and books based on true events). They asked what apartheid was. I explained, and they had never heard of it.

I was genuinely shocked. We were taught about it in school - in both history, and English. I'm 30, so I wasn't educated decades ago.

Is this not in the curriculum anymore, or is it just her school? I think it's really important that young people are taught about these events, especially as racism is still such a problem.

I'm late 20s and never did it at school but would have definitely known what it was at that age. It's referenced frequently enough in books and TV shows and politics and surely can't really be thought of as obscure knowledge?

People always like to come onto MN and parade their superior knowledge

Knowing about basic world events isn't 'superior knowledge'.

If someone was talking about something spanning decades that I'd never heard about I'd just read about it myself, not feel that they're 'parading', what an odd perspective

@WhateverHappenedToMe

This is an example of what may well happen if society "cancels" people rather than allowing people to hear opposing views and discuss them.

What?

In my 30s and had to Google what it was.... I fucking hated my history teacher

And this is why I waste while away too many hours here.........

I'm officially ancient, so apartheid was part of the scenery in my childhood and teens, but I can understand why any contemporary youth might have missed it. I can remember seeing both the Berlin Airlift, and the falling of the Wall on TV news, just about 27 years later. I was very lucky to have an inspired history teacher for O and A levels, plus a parent who was interested and read widely. But a lot of what I know comes from historical fiction accounts of real life events, and reading widely for 60+ years.

I was just thinking about how prevalent the anti apartheid movement was in the 80s and 90s and how I avoided South African fruit and was shocked at a black fellow student eating cape grapes without a thought and later a white female flatmate telling us with pride how her brother had got a job as a mining engineer in S Africa. It occurs to me that maybe some of the Insulate Now protesters are veterans of those campaigns and other similar ones as many of them seem to be older people. But also some have been absorbed into the establishment - Lord Peter Hain who took part in many direct action protests when younger. At the time Margaret Thatcher and other politicians regarded Nelson Mandela and members of the ANC as terrorists.

They wouldnt understand the joke in Only Fools and Horses about Mandela Tower.
We popped into the university DP and I went to years ago and noticed the student bar was no longer called Mandela Bar, but instead a trendy sounding name.

When there were just four channels on the TV, we watched pretty much anything, and so our knowledge, through news, documentaries, drama etc was expanded. Now, with the internet and streaming, we pick and choose more

That's an interesting point saraclara

@julieca

They wouldnt understand the joke in Only Fools and Horses about Mandela Tower. We popped into the university DP and I went to years ago and noticed the student bar was no longer called Mandela Bar, but instead a trendy sounding name.

Yes, that’s interesting. Something I hadn’t thought about.

I don't think ignorance is confined to events and policies in far-off lands. Look at the Brexit movement and referendum here, and the subsequent revelations on how little most people actually know about how the EU works.

Even the UK's Brexit negotiators didn't understand half of the EU's institutions, their roles and purposes. They still don't get that the EU is a rules-based system. Dominic Raab didn't even know how much stuff came across the Channel!

Many Brits revel in their innumeracy and illiteracy

That's untrue and highly offensive actually

so it's hardly surprising that knowledge of domestic politics or history in Timbuktu or beyond is so lacking

Which countries have Timbuktu history in their national curriculum, do you know?

@julieca Keele University? Or Nelson Mandela Building at Manchester Uni?

Look at the Brexit movement and referendum here, and the subsequent revelations on how little most people actually know about how the EU works

It's time you dropped it and moved on

@KenAddams

In my 30s and had to Google what it was.... I fucking hated my history teacher

Unless your history teacher has somehow prevented you from accessing any books, documentaries, news programmes or that little thing known as the internet, then I'm not sure you can really pin this one on them.

XingMing, we must be a similar age. Does it seem amazing to you as it it does to me to think back to the number of controversial things that have changed in your lifetime? The fall of the Berlin Wall and collapse of the Soviet Union and end of Cold War (how many hours did we spend on the formation of the USSR in school!), the end of the Vietnam War, Sex Equality and Equal Pay ACts, Good Friday Agreement, release of Mandela and end of apartheid, ,free elections in S Africa, I remember entry of Uk into the Common Market as was and now we have Brexited, Scottish Independence vote and probably another again remember the first and on Welsh Independence, Falklands War, the marriage, divorce, tv interview and death of Princess Diana, her funeral, deaths and retirement of Popes, election of first UK female PM, AIDS, downfall of so many public figures, public discussion of sexual abuse, female vicars in CofE, gay partnership then equal marriage, Iraq wars 1 and 2, withdrawal from Afghanistan. So many things that seemed like they never would or could change.

Many Brits revel in their innumeracy and illiteracy

That's untrue and highly offensive actually

I actually think it’s very true particularly in regard to numeracy. Do many people who say they can’t do maths, aren’t number people, etc with a wry smile. People seem to be barely able to calculate a percentage and think it’s funny rather than embarrassing.

Schools can't teach every world system, event, tragedy, history or geo political matter. But you can fill the gapsas parents. We discussed loads of stuff at home and in turn discussed stuff with our own children.

I work with a lot of intelligent people who will tell me they “can’t do” numbers in a way no one would ever say about literacy. I can’t imagine anyone saying “Oh you’ll have to sort that out for me, I’m terrible with words”.

It’s incredibly common and seems almost a badge of pride, as though maths and numeracy is for geeks, not cool, not important enough for the likes of them.

We never covered that topic at school either. I didn't know until i watched some films on the subject.

I work with a lot of intelligent people who will tell me they “can’t do” numbers in a way no one would ever say about literacy. I can’t imagine anyone saying “Oh you’ll have to sort that out for me, I’m terrible with words”.

I once worked for someone who had just moved from being the Chief Exec of an NHS Trust on £200k-ish (2006) to the private sector. She had to write a letter to staff and handed me a page of error-strewn rambling. I remember her exact words to this day: "Turn this into English."

You just have to see some of the spelling, grammar and syntax in everyday workplaces, not to mention the internet, to realise how bad literacy really is here. I'm forrin, and one of the things my compatriots always ask me about is why we'er so illiterate as a nation.

People say they can't do numbers, because it's perceived as something you don't really do every day.

I have lots of students tell me that they don't need to English, because they can already speak it.

why we'er so illiterate as a nation

Not to mention how we cannot type.

@tomorrowalready, exactly that... we must be about the same age. I even remember hearing Jack de Manio announce Churchill's death on the Today Programme, the Kennedy assassination, followed by the shooting of Jack Ruby. A friend served in Vietnam, one of the last to be conscripted, then Watergate and Nixon, the fall of the Shah, etc. etc. etc.

DH and I were talking about it earlier, and about the innumeracy. Then he told me about an R5 presenter (Adrian Chiles?) who had to be prompted through calculating a 5% pay rise on £9 ph.... I despair!

@Otherpeoplesteens The current CEO in my workplace does this with me. I was shocked the first time he handed me a terribly written report and asked me to edit it and make it readable.

@Otherpeoplesteens, .

In some countries touch-typing is mandatory in school... my nephew and niece were taught in Y8 in Belgium, and it was compulsory and tested weekly until they could achieve 35-40 wpm.