To expect DM to train her unruly dog?

[PurplePeach83]

Advice appreciated here please on how to deal with this situation as its getting in the way of my interactions with my DM and putting me off having my DCs visit her.
DM and DSD bought a small dog (high energy breed) a few months before lockdown. Previously they had a wonderful dog with the calmest temperament you could imagine, who died a few months before getting this one.
The trouble is, this dog is now 2 years old, and jumps up at everyone repeatedly. He gets several hours of exercise a day, but he still gets overexcited and he even nips at sleeves and clothes. I insist he is put on a lead near the DC or put in another room but then he just spoils situations by scratching and whining at the door. I have tried to point out that this behaviour is completely antisocial and unacceptable but nothing changes. They let him climb on sofa arms when people are on the sofa and he licks people's ears, he jumps, nips and gets fed from the table. He won't be left alone. He sleeps in their room and not because they like it. Basically he rules the roost, there are seemingly no boundaries. My DM and DSD blame lockdown, but these issues are quite resolvable IMO if they try withdrawing attention and rewarding him when he has calmed down.
How should I deal with this? If I try to implement these techniques myself, my efforts will be undone if they don't consistently use them themselves. Would refusing to visit until they sort this be unreasonable?

Is it a Jack Russell?
They can be lovely dogs, but also a pain in the arse.

You need to talk to them calmly and practically - maybe set a target of which behaviours need to be resolved before you are happy for DC to be around the dog, such as jumping up and nipping. Some of the things, like sleeping in the bedroom, don't affect your DC so I'd focus on the things that do.

Steer them in the direction of a positive reinforcement trainer. Do they use Facebook? There's a great group called Dog Training Advice and Support which has prewritten guides addressing lots of different behavioural issues and how to resolve them.

Although I think all dogs should have some basic training for their own and their humans happiness, I would say it’s not your business, especially where he sleeps.
But I’d also say that if you don’t feel your children are safe then you’re not unreasonable to stop visiting. Your children are your priority. They’ll either sort it out, visit you at your house without their dog or not see you. Their choice.

My mothers dog is the same and is a Westie, so naturally quite "spirited".
It gets on whatever furniture it wants and once nipped DDs cheek because she moved while sat on the sofa.
It sleeps on mother's bed and if you move while in the bed it attacks you through the duvet.
It nips at the ankles of people as they walk by the house.
Yeah ya awful, and it's purely because she has never told it no or trained it. It is not allowed in my house and that causes issues at times because she also never leaves it anywhere on its own but it also stinks so that's it.

I feel your pain.

My dog is obviously an angel, but then he is a Labrador

I knew a Jack Russell like this honestly. This obsession with in breeding dogs does lead to some seriously awful results.

Some dogs that are like this at 2 years old can still calm down as they mature - 2 years can be young in some breeds. So there is still hope.

It's also not a waste for you to implement the techniques you described. Dogs are typically rather good at discriminating circumstances - so learning that behaving like that with Person A gets attention but does not with Person B so it's not worth trying with them. This often manifests as them 'not bothering' to scrounge from certain people because they never get fed by them.

Whether or not to stop visiting is one for you, I'm afraid. It is a rather nuclear button option (as in, likely to cause upset and damage the relationship between you) so only you know if the dog is so annoying to be 'wroth' that for you?

Entirely their fault and due to lack of training. I’d refuse to go round. No way should the dc be subject to nipping!

@3scape

I knew a Jack Russell like this honestly. This obsession with in breeding dogs does lead to some seriously awful results.

We all know dogs like this, regardless of the breed 🙄. It is a matter of training.

What do you mean by “in breeding” dogs’ obsession? Thorough bred dogs? Swiping statement much?

There are plenty of amazing breeders and Jack Russells, like all proper terriers, are typically well bred. It is not a fashionable breed like Dachshunds or Poodles crosses sold by the bucket load and for a fortune on Pets4Home by unscrupulous or inexperienced people.

@AwkwardPaws27

Is it a Jack Russell? They can be lovely dogs, but also a pain in the arse.

You need to talk to them calmly and practically - maybe set a target of which behaviours need to be resolved before you are happy for DC to be around the dog, such as jumping up and nipping. Some of the things, like sleeping in the bedroom, don't affect your DC so I'd focus on the things that do.

Steer them in the direction of a positive reinforcement trainer. Do they use Facebook? There's a great group called Dog Training Advice and Support which has prewritten guides addressing lots of different behavioural issues and how to resolve them.

Agree. I have a Jack. She’s a nightmare when people come round. She climbs over them despite being put back on the floor constantly. She creates Merry hell at walk time whining, howling, yapping and jumping around so it’s impossible to get her harness on. Training has no effect. She’s just bonkers.

Is it a Jack? They are very good at being trained. You see a lot of them on TV etc. But I see also fog owners usually better at training big dogs over small dogs.

Anyway, in your case you can’t control your DM or her dog, you can only control your actions, so if I were you I’d not go around, I’d meet up at your house or a cafe. Let her know why, but you have no say over what she lets her dog do eg dog sleeping on her bed. If she isn’t happy about it, then she has to be the one to sort it out.

My mother got a rescue dog like this and was at a loss how to deal with it, the dog, although tiny, was aggressive and a letter that came with him said he would bite you if you sat too close on the sofa to him.

It was essentially an insecure dog that had had no boundaries of routine, she was his fifth home in two years. We started with basic rules, no sofa or allowed to be aggressive over food or toys, learning to sit and wait for a reward etc.
I put the groundwork in, and once mum saw how he could behave she followed it up. He's a well mannered dog now. It might be she just doesn't know how to train it properly after having a quieter more biddable dog.

I feel you as it’s the same with my mum. It’s a shame because the dog is a Jack but totally trainable as my husband and I proved when we had her for a few weeks when my mum went into hospital.

As soon as she went home, the bad behaviour started again. It’s my mums fault for spoiling the dog, endless treats, feeding off lap, sleeping on her bed.

I tried but then thought why should I be stressed out by being jumped at and constantly hassled during visits whilst my clothes and therefore car get covered in hair.

So now I refuse to go to the house and we meet in town or at a cafe.

It’s a shame cause I know mums friends who are also elderly are put off visiting but she won’t be told what the issue is!

I’m fairness to Jack Russells, I’ve met pugs and dachshunds who are total horrors.

I wonder if part of it is that the owners take poor behaviour more seriously in a big dog.

I would just not go and visit them at their house until they get the training needed. They are obviously too lazy to properly train the dog.

That sounds very annoying, a lot of people don't train their dogs anymore though, they treat them like children, spoiled children

What you can do is stop visiting their house. Invite them to your house without the dog. If they don't want to take the time and effort to train the dog then they cannot expect people will continue to visit them.

I have jack Russell. I'm assuming It is one. They are lively. Just ask for it to be put in the kitchen or somewhere until it's calmed down. It will only be excited initially. Once you've been there a while it will calm down. Give it 5 mins but totally ignore it when you walk in. Don't give it any attention it'll get bored

I think sadly the problem is when people buy small dogs, they think it's ok not to teach them manners because they're not barrelling into people and causing injuries.

I have a friend who's bought a small lockdown dog and it's allowed to leap all over everyone and everything because it's tiny (and very annoying!)

In your shoes I'd probably refuse to see them unless they came to my house without the dog, or met up somewhere neutral without it.

YANBU and your use of the word 'antisocial' is correct. I admit I'm not the biggest fan of dogs in the first place, but get on fine with well-behaved ones. If I was your DMs friend and witnessed that behaviour with the dog jumping all over me etc, I would make excuses to never have to visit their house or meet them out with the dog.

I'm the owner of a desperate to meet you, every you, whenever, wherever, you, you, you, English bull terrier.

So, given the size, weight and determination if the little sod, you can imagine how much effort has been put into training him. Almost enough to have spoiled the joy of owning him in the direct place.

But that's what has to be done when you have a bouncy dog. It's not fair on the dog not to be responsible, for a start!

YANBU. All owners are fully responsible for the behaviour of their animals. If it is snapping at people, particularly children that is totally unacceptable.

Why don’t they leave the dog at home and visit you ?

Thanks for the contributions everyone, much appreciated and good to know that most of you do not think I'm being unreasonable here. I won't specify the breed as it will be outing, but it is popular cross let's just say.
The problem with asking to meet at a café etc is that we live too far apart to meet for the day, and the dog has separation anxiety anyway. They refuse to put him in kennels.
When we stay with them the DC's stay in their room with us so dog keeps trying to get in the room, so the sleeping arrangements do affect us ultimately.

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

I'm the owner of a desperate to meet you, every you, whenever, wherever, you, you, you, English bull terrier.

So, given the size, weight and determination if the little sod, you can imagine how much effort has been put into training him. Almost enough to have spoiled the joy of owning him in the direct place.

But that's what has to be done when you have a bouncy dog. It's not fair on the dog not to be responsible, for a start!

Not just bouncy dogs. They are pack animals, they need a leader. People who get dogs and don't know this are doing the dog, as well as everyone around it, a disservice.