AIBU to think UWE is a bad choice of Uni for Fashion Communication or Textiles?

[RockinHorseShit]

Sorry to ask here, but it's always busier & I'm hoping to catch people currently working in the industry or with DCs etc who do.

DD has done an about turn on studying for a Psychology degree, which was why she initially chose UWE in Bristol. Shes convinced herself her B, instead of predicted A in A-level psychology wasn't good enough, but seems from checking myself it is, it's fine & she has more than enough points already too & will have more from her current college course. It's seems she is giving up without trying, which she has form for, plus she didn't like one of her Psychology tutors at A level college, which has turned her off it a bit, so we are still not sure if she actually wants to do it or not. We do think it would be a better fit for her career wise though, but of course it's her choice, but we do have concerns.

She's still insisting on going to UWE based on her friends & boyfriend going there, we do understand her reasons why, but she is now looking at Fashion. Most likely fashion communication aiming at being a stylist, or maybe Merchandiser, buyer etc. She's only just told me this now after months of refusing to discuss it & years of being determined to get a psychology degree & career in that. I'm trying to organise a visit for the open day to see all possible choices & she's refused to tell me anything up until now as she doesn't see a need to vits the Uni🤦‍♀️----

Fashion is my trade & I've worked all ends of the design & manufacturing end of it & recruited too. UWE fashion textiles definitely wasn't a respected degree when I was working with high street design & speaking to old colleagues who still work in the manufacturing & design arm of fashion tell me that hasn't changed...

Is that still true? AIBU to be concerned this is a bad move?

Fashion Communication of the 2 courses she's interested in seems to be the one she's most interested in though she won't give me a straight answer & as it covers photography too, which she's done well in A-Level wise, would be the better fit of the 2 for her.

Is this a respected degree within the the industry?

People keep telling us that everything bar the fashion department has a good reputation at UWE, so the about turn on course choice is a worry🥴.

We have what still seems like a much more respected Uni fashion department on our doorstep too, which could have repercussions financially if I'm understanding it correctly (disability)

There's also photography. She did exceptionally well in that A-Level & where as we've steered her away from a degree in that as it's such a hard career path, one DH gave up after the onslaught of cheap digital cameras, & after doing well in it for years, so he feels that's a bad choice or her too...

but is it though when she obviously has a real talent for it. How easy is it to get work with a photography degree & what type of work

Help

Thank you 🤞🤞

What about an apprenticeship? From what you've said she doesn't feel ready for uni, isn't putting any work in anyway and doesn't know what she wants to do or where it will lead.

We've suggested that in the past, but she definitely wants & will likely need a degree.

She is actually very hard working once she has a project & can put her mind to it, but tends to panic about it & not do it until the very last minute. She is working very hard on her current college work, but not taking any photos at all since finishing her photography A-Level as she hasn't needed to

Urgh the cost of degrees now makes choosing that much more diffcult. I'd talk to her calmly about psychology degree as she was so set on it. Perhaps get her to phone the administration and talk to them about her predicted B

That's exactly it, it's such a huge weight on such young shoulders & she's clearly really feeling that 😞

I'm hoping we can ask all of that when we visit. I think all she might need is an enthusiastic approachable tutor at the opening evening to change her mind. Pretty much exactly this happened with her Psychology A-Level as she'd lost confidence after her lower than expected GCSE grade

& talking calmly is impossible right now, we are trying hard, but she just gets hysterical 😩

Also use offer a foundation year with psychology. So there are options

We suggested that, but she thinks it will be too much like her A-Level & GCSE, so refused that idea too

Working in Bristol (sorry to whoever said that, I'm losing track) isn't an option according to her either, as she won't be able to live with her fiends & boyfriend as planned when they can move out of halls of residence... we suggest that a while back to give herself more time

Her friend is there now & choose an English degree as she was equally in a pickle about making a career choice & it seemed sensible, that could also be an option for DD, but she's ruled that idea out too.

I think knowing for sure the fashion course is as bad as I think it might be, would put her off. but I know nothing according to DD Or knowing I'm wrong would mean I feel more able to support her in that choice more comfortably

My DD was dead set on doing Psychology before she had even started the A-level. That continued up until the end of L6 - she even started drafting her personal statement, then about two weeks before the end of term she decided that there was too much of the course that she wasn't enjoying, and that those elements would be a significant part of any degree and decided it was no longer for her.

I think it is a degree you really have to be totally committed to. Also, because there is no point in doing it unless it is endorsed by the BPS, and to get that endorsement courses have to cover a set list of areas, there is very little variation in most courses. This is different from something like English or History where there is much more freedom to choose courses that include your specific areas of interest. I don't think it's worth pushing, if it's something she really no longer wants to do.

BTW UWE is great - my DS is in his second year there.

When I was working in the industry nobody cared about your degree, It was all about your experience and that meant, many, many unpaid internships

I don’t know much about fashion- however I don’t think she necessarily needs to be making clothes?!

My cousin did a fashion course at Manchester Metropolitan and now works for one of the fast fashion brands- she doesn’t sew.

I personally think you are making psychology out to be an easy or secure option when it’s not. The job market is flooded with psychology graduates and even assistant psychologist roles are cutthroat competitive and you have to do one of those for years whilst you’re trying to get into a doctorate.
You can do jobs like being a well-being practitioner etc but generally these posts aren’t well paid and have little career progression. They are also high stress- think people saying they are going to kill themselves if you don’t do x or y.

Remember lots of people don’t end up doing anything related to their degree at all and the chances are psychology or fashion that would be the case for both options- so she should just do the one she thinks she would enjoy most.

BTW UWE is great - my DS is in his second year there.

Not fashion ?

We hear its great for all but fashion & that's the concern when we have an excellent fashion department on our doorstep. Especially as DD would qualify for help with accommodation costs because of her disability, but if I'm understanding it correctly, only if there's a need to move for a better course... it definitely isn't a better course than we have here

I don’t know much about fashion- however I don’t think she necessarily needs to be making clothes?!

My cousin did a fashion course at Manchester Metropolitan and now works for one of the fast fashion brands- she doesn’t sew.

It's been my trade for decades & I got to the top, so I DO know about that industry. Yes you can get work without knowing how to sew or pattern cut etc, but you'll be first out of the door when business gets tough & they need to cut costs. All rounders are much preferred, you'll also have little respect from your team if you can't direct them in sewing or pattern cutting & you can't do that properly if you can't do that role yourself. I'm an all rounder & have never been out of work as a result & can design & make from home too, which I couldn't do if I could only design. It's really proffered in the industry as to design properly, you need to have good understanding of cutting a pattern suitable for mass production. There's a fast turn over of designers only staff too, as they only want your ideas, not your technical skill too, & they'll want fresh ideas soon enough... I'd recommend your niece learns if she wants to do well in the industry & to have secure work

Which is exactly the advice myself & other fashion friends have given DD

Sorry, cousin, not niece

Why is it so important for her to do a degree? It doesn’t sound like there is anything specific she wants to study with any future job in mind. It’s a lot of work and money to get a degree and in my view its really not worth it unless that degree is actually going to be useful when you’ve graduated.

If she has a future career in mind has she explored other routes to that rather than getting a degree?

What career path did she plan with the psychology degree?
I think it's a hard field to get into; many years ago I had a friend with two relevant degrees who only ever got to do unpaid placements in her chosen field. Eventually she built a career in sheltered housing for the vulnerable - no doubt the knowledge from the degrees came in useful, but the field she ended up in wasn;t what she had planned and not brilliantly paid.

As a qualified accountant I generally avoid recruiting people with accountancy degrees - I want qualified accountants, but in my experience if at 17/18 accounting was what they were really keen to study, they must be a bit geeky.

When I was working in the industry nobody cared about your degree, It was all about your experience and that meant, many, many unpaid internships

That's exactly my experience too @Icebreaker99, without the unpaid internships that tend to go with so called designer labels. I don't believe in that, so it never happened on my watch. That end of the industry was always lower paid anyway

DD doesn't need a degree to do fashion as far as I'm concerned, she could get in the same way I did, by being fully skilled up in garment manufacture & using 1-1 teaching from fashion professionals instead of her degree & make & sell for herself first... I found it had more weight than any degree & I soon learnt to understand why when I became involved with recruitment.

You don't need a degree in photography either, DH does have one, but 2 very successful photographer friends don't.

I know fashion & photography can both be very full on, high stress careers, especially fashion & potentially with very long hours & little to no scope to work part time. This clashes badly with DDs disability & I don't think she'd cope well without making herself very ill... it's definitely taken it's toll on my health & I burnt out.

I don't think psychology is an easy option, degree or career wise, but DD is very clever, will do well at whatever she chooses as she's a massive perfectionist & works very hard to achieve, so she's very capable & the career options at the end of it suit her better health wise... if that makes sense

I did Fashion Management and Marketing degree at UCA Epsom and it was fantastic. Really well-rounded, a lot critical theory alongside the course, excellent university resources, transferable digital skills (I.e. graphics) and just a cracking place to hone creativity for real world practices.

I have a degree in fashion as do many of my friends. All the jobs we worked in wanted graduates. I don’t know anyone who was a designer without some sort of degree.

It’s been my trade for ages too.

I don’t know anyone who cuts patterns or sees anymore. The majority of clothing is imported, so all pattern cutting is done abroad.

My niece designs strips for top footie teams. She just designs, no pattern cutting or sewing. The majority of the U.K. clothing industry is like this.

Does she even need to go to uni right now? the choices seem like grasping at straws and the prospect of unemployment (or completely unrelated employment)

@ThinWomansBrain

What career path did she plan with the psychology degree?

Initially it was because she wanted to be a doctor, but she lost her love of science due to poor teaching during her GCSEs, which crusted & stressed her a lot & put her off science. She still had an interest in psychology though & thought that would still get her Dr in front of her name. Exploring it with her further she realised that she loves kids, would like to work with kids, but she needs something more intellectually challenging than nursery work, which she has some experience of & she couldn't handle teaching as she struggled with noise in class as a pupil & wouldn't want to work in a classroom.

Psychology interests her a lot, she's great with kids, especially kids with SN, there's been many times over the years that very introverted DCs who are barely or non verbal have been drawn to her & have opened up & even spoken to her in a way that's shocked other staff or even parents & keep asking for her by name after that. She's even had babysitting work because those DCs wanted to see her again, not because the parents were going out. For a long time she's loved the idea of somehow working in child psychology, such as at the children's centre she visited a lot for MH support & to see her OT. Her negative experiences with doctors blaming her as then undiagnosed physical health on MH issues, has made her quite astute at spotting that in other kids too over the years. She also uses psychology to deal with difficult situations with success & she's said staying in charge & using her brain productively helped her not to panic. She talked 4 guys out of beating her boyfriend up badly after they'd attacked him from behind & knocked him to the floor. She said she used her Psychology studies to pin point the ring leader etc & motivation & talk them round. She's also said she's quelled her anxiety in a recent interview by doing the same, used her psychology knowledge to read the interviewer & play to what they were looking for... she was given the job on the spot. So she's definitely got an interest & knack for it, she impressive for sure apart from when she's in a mood & is using it to rip me to shreds of course

Now though I've no idea, as she's refused to say if she's gone off the idea, leaving us feeling it's partly confusion & being torn between 2 very different paths, 1 creative & 1 academic, both of which she's capable of doing well in & partly a confidence issue. She really doesn't seem to know & is clearly panicked by it.

Looking at her now, she's very alternative in her dress sense, has a penchant for piercings tattoos etc & heavy make up & dyed hair. Which looks fabulous, but we wish she'd slow down a bit with some of it until she knows what she'll do. This makes her feel that fashion or photography suits her better career wise as they'll accept her as she wants to present herself. But DH & I both know that it's not always easier in the fashion or photography industry either, but she won't have it. She does understand toning it down for work though & we were impressed that at her first work interview she brought this up & offered to tone it down, but there's only so much toning down you can do & some places just don't accept it.

That said, I can see her as a stylist, she's brilliant as pulling an impact making outfit together. If that was her chosen path now, I'd be fine with that as I know she does have the talent, so long as it's a reasonably respected degree course & also that she understands that it will most likely mean moving to London to work & she hates that idea

Frustrated, not crusted

I don’t know anyone who cuts patterns or sees anymore. The majority of clothing is imported, so all pattern cutting is done abroad.

That's interesting & reassuring to hear @ArseInTheCoOpWindow

I haven't worked that end for about 10 years now, but overseas production was the norm then too, but patterns & even graded sets were always done here, because it tended to go wrong if they weren't... I spent quite a bit of time in China etc troubleshooting production problems as a result 🥴 glad to see things have moved on

Good to see there's a lot more opportunity & security for designers who can't produce a garment themselves. Though I still standby being an all rounder as a better career move. It allows you to be way more flexible, & I wouldn't be working now without the added skill set

Photography sounds like a glorified hobby rather than a career

She sounds completely befuddled about what she wants to do and that's fine, she is still very young. My youngest was exactly the same and ended up taking a fantastic apprenticeship, which he is loving. My eldest always knew what degree he wanted to do and just went for it, regardless of where his friends were going.
Much better to take a year out, try and get some work experience and clear her mind. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by jumping on a degree course (especially if she's going to UWE because her friends and boyfriend are there) only to regret it in a years time. I wouldn't be encouraging her to go at all right now.

If she's interested in high st level fashion she's better aiming for an apprenticeship rather than a Uni degree. She can try a few different options and actually get her foot in the door.

Of course if she really loves fashion she should go get a job in tech and enjoy buying it instead 😉

Also - if you could set her up with a internship for a couple of weeks, do you think she'd go? Sounds like you know a few people still in the business?

I don't know about UWE but I'd have thought that you want to pick your course depending on exactly what you want to do. A few weeks at the coal face would help maybe? I've been in the industry probably about the same amount of time as you and I'd never even heard of the job I do now when I was applying for uni.

And not being able to pattern cut doesn't seem to hold back a lot of the designers I know. Not being able to pick suitable fabric doesn't hold back the designers I know 😂