Wayne Couzens to appeal whole life tariff

[mbosnz]

Has this piece of filth no shame? Deities rot him.

As someone upthread has said, he is safer in prison than out of it.

[quote Lockheart]@Stuckhere2021 there's nothing sad about it.
The level of moral outrage whipped up by tabloid media is not a suitable barometer for punishment by the state.[/quote]
@Lockheart - I think I get the point you are trying to make ….. but I’m not sure because;

• the moral outrage was not necessarily “whipped up” by tabloid media - you make it sound like this outrage is unjustified
• “the law” is not always “right” - okay, it might be right by the rules set by itself, but that doesn’t make it intrinsically or wholly “right”. Why should one person (a judge) get to decide the punishment?
• In keeping with the above, I can see that “mob rule” would not be desirable either but if it’s okay for a jury of “peers”/neutral/non-legally trained “ordinary” people to find the defendant guilty or not, why shouldn’t the jury not set the sentence?

@mbosnz

For Sarah's family and friends to be put through this again, is horrendous. Also, for his family, his children, to have this reopened is horrendous. Could someone just accidentally put him in General Population, or something?

Yes please. Pretty please.

@Wherearemymarbles

Basically he is the only person serving a whole life term who isn't a serial killer or terrorist so I’m not in the least bit surprised. And to be frank it’s possible the appeal court judges think the term is unreasonable

I'd be surprised if they do find the precedent unreasonable. A serving police officer using their warrant card and position of power to coerce a woman into their car under the guise of arresting them absolutely fits under the specifications for a whole life tariff.

Basically he is the only person serving a whole life term who isn't a serial killer or terrorist so I’m not in the least bit surprised.

That isn't actually the case though, if you feel like having a rummage through the list.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prisoners_with_whole-life_orders

Hopefully it's doubled for the brazenness of wanting to appeal. Absolutely sickening.

@HarrisMcCoo

Hopefully it's doubled for the brazenness of wanting to appeal. Absolutely sickening.

It's not brazen, the right to request an appeal is pretty basic. And no, his sentence will not be doubled, that's not how it works.

I think the precedent is that his is the first whole life- order for a non-terrorism- related single murder of an adult, isn't it?

It certainly seems from the reporting that the judge gave compelling reasons why a whole life-order was justified - the fact WC was a serving police officer and used his position to commit the crime, the impact of his crime on public confidence in the police force etc

My post was in response to @Dahlietta

Even if nothing happens now, what’s to say in 20 years he wont win an appeal. I googled other life timers when he was sentenced and some after many years had an appeal go through (still rare though, but shocking none the less)

No, others have too, including the infamous rose west, googled her too, she’s a monster!!

@BettyCarver

I think the precedent is that his is the first whole life- order for a non-terrorism- related single murder of an adult, isn't it?

It certainly seems from the reporting that the judge gave compelling reasons why a whole life-order was justified - the fact WC was a serving police officer and used his position to commit the crime, the impact of his crime on public confidence in the police force etc

This is it in a nutshell. I'm an ex cop and you don't get to hear whole life sentences often. The Judge gave this one (rightly so and with very specific reasons) and I'm fairly sure it will stand.

I have mates who are cops. One in Murder squad, one in Child protection. They work night and day to try and put people behind bars. There are some horrendous people out there. I have to do an identity parade for one such individual on Monday.

A serving copper who does something like this is absolutely deserving of a whole life sentence. He is rightly being made an example of. You don't have to be a terrorist or serial murderer to be locked up for life.

@EscapeTheCastle

I wish that Colin Pitchfork was still inside. He should have been given whole life for what he did.

Very unfortunate surname for a person. Or fitting depending on how you look at it. Absolutely shocking he got to walk a free man. Very chilling case.

Ah sad to read this

He is not safer in prison. Trust me a policeman in prison for his crime.....he will be put in seclusion for his own safety.

He's most definitely a sadistic psychopath who got a thrill out of commuting terrible, evil crimes and as a psychopath has no empathy, no remorse and will never ever accept responsibility hence the appeal.

Lockheart to be fair, my response was emotive. I am sure it doesn't work like this in reality

@Owlink

He was bound to because whole-life sentences are usually used for terrorists or serial killers. The trial judge did set out exactly why it was appropriate in this case but I think most lawyers could see this coming. Leave to appeal could be denied but I think it will be allowed, simply to test &, hopefully, reinforce the precedent that has been set.

I know it feels disgusting but it's just the legal system double-checking itself.

This.

The judge saw it coming, hence the very detailed statement about the reasons for the tariff.

It would be no bad thing if whole-life was a stringer option in many cases.

Stop using his name. Honestly there needs to be a crime where we get to stop acknowledging the person and feting every little thing they do.

@EdgeOfTheSky my understanding though is that application to appeal is most usually granted where there's a chance there might be some legal procedural error. Less often it might be because a sentence could be deemed excessive. It does seem, from the court reporting, that neither of these would apply. The judge gave such compelling reasons why the sentence was appropriate. I get the point that with any precedent, it's important to have checks and balances, but I hope for SE's family's sake that the application to appeal is denied, with watertight reasons. I can't imagine an appeal would ever be successful in amending the sentence, and it's awful to think the family might be put through any additional stress without very good reason

See where he could have grounds is that Danyal Hussein has just been given a minimum term of 35 years for murdering 2 women. He could be out when he is 54. Personally i cant see why he didn’t get a whole life sentence when Couzens did. Both equally dangerous in my book.
If wayne couzens had been given 35 years he’d be 83 before release and probably dead.

@Wherearemymarbles

See where he could have grounds is that Danyal Hussein has just been given a minimum term of 35 years for murdering 2 women. He could be out when he is 54. Personally i cant see why he didn’t get a whole life sentence when Couzens did. Both equally dangerous in my book. If wayne couzens had been given 35 years he’d be 83 before release and probably dead.

Wayne couzens was a serving police officer ,and he used covid laws to "arrest " Sarah Everard that's why he got a whole life term ,if he hadent been a serving police officer he would probably have got a similar sentence to Danyel Hussein , realistically though ,I don't think either of them will ever be let out again

@Wherearemymarbles

See where he could have grounds is that Danyal Hussein has just been given a minimum term of 35 years for murdering 2 women. He could be out when he is 54. Personally i cant see why he didn’t get a whole life sentence when Couzens did. Both equally dangerous in my book. If wayne couzens had been given 35 years he’d be 83 before release and probably dead.

One of them was a calculated killer who used his position of power to get hold of his victim.

The other was mentally disturbed (he believed the killings would get him a lottery win) and attacked at random.

Two very different scenarios.

When I read the sentencing I thought that the judge had set it out so meticulously with at least one eye to the likelihood of an appeal. As it is such an unusual use of the WLT I do think that he will be allowed to appeal but I seriously hope that he will lose the appeal. In a way it might if the one positive thing that came out of this case was to set out a well argued precedent for a WLT in non-serial/terrorism cases.

Im not surprised he appealed. Im sure the only reason he pleaded (v unusual in murder) is because he thought he would avoid a WLT if he did.

I thought the judge gave clear and compelling reasons for the WLT despite the lack of precedent. The only aspect I think is slightly vulnerable is the lack of any credit for the guilty plea.

Due to the lack of precedents and therefore the public importance of the issue, I would not be surprised if permission is granted.

Ultimately, I think it is likely to fail, but it would be useful to obtain clarity from the court of appeal on the use of WLT in such circs.