To wonder why communal parks are so biased towards boys

[arethereanyleftatall]

Looking around our parks, it occurred to me all the normal type equipment paid for by the council is geared towards a certain type of play.
You tend to see a slide/swing type area (great for everyone) plus football goals, skate parks, and basketball hoops.
Of course either sex could play on the last 3, and do, but in general, these 3 types of equipment are occupied by boys.
Or, let's take sex out of it - these 3 types of equipment are played with by energetic/sporty/rough and tumble type children.
Where's the community stuff for the children who prefer more gentle/imaginative role play/dance games.
Where's the netball courts, the fairy houses?
I'm actually not even sure what you would build to make it more even, but at our local park yesterday.... 8 approximately 10 year old boys playing football; about 10 teenage boys on the skate park;basketball hoop unused; swing area equal girls/boys.

For whatever reason very many more girls than boys stop doing spontaneous physical exercise as they progress throughout their school years, although a large number will do more organised sport. I don't think it is just down to lack of space or not wanting to in front of boys.
When I was growing up the only equipment in the park was swings, roundabout and see saw, occasionally a climbing frame and if you were lucky a big metal slide that burnt your arse the minute the sun got on it. No basketball courts or anything else.

As teens we often went over the fields , sometimes with 10 cigarettes and a bottle of cider. The field was nothing but grass. We were all in the hockey/netball teams all took active parts in sports day. In my case every Saturday I was watching football both home and away matches. Invariably whilst in that field the girls would sit around chatting. Boys would end up kicking a ball, or wrestling or setting up an empty bottle and seeing who could hit it with a stone. It was just what each group wanted to do. It wasn't a question of there being stuff for boys but not girls because there was bugger all for anyone.

@arethereanyleftatall you need a skateboard to go on a skate park.

@bendmeoverbackwards how wonderfully dismissive. As an aside, I haven't mentioned 'pink fairy houses', just referenced the international research done by organisations actually speaking to teenage girls.

A few general things which might be useful. First @arethereanyleftatall nails it here. This is the problem:

I think some posters are missing the point. Yes, the communal equipment provided could be used by boys or girls. The reality is that it's not, and girls are disappearing from parks around the age of ten. We do need to address why that is, and look for ways to accommodate them

But part of the reason why it arises at the age of ten is that parents are great enforces of equity. So it's much less of a problem when children are going to parks with their parents. The flip side of this is that if you see girls on the skate park when you are there, it's partly because you are there. You are the safety net which enables them to do this. Teenage girls tend to get up early to use skate parks so that they can do it before the boys are there. One girl told me she went just after it rained; the surface was a bit shit but it kept the boys away...

I mean, we can continue designing and implementing playparks which girls won't use, because they feel intimidated, or dominated over, or self conscious and then wonder why girls choose not to use public spaces. Or we can keep shouting that girls need to do more active exercise and wonder how they do that exactly when they won't use the public spaces

Or we can look at ways to make public spaces more attractive to girls in general and the exercise part of it will follow on from there

Fix the girls or fix the facilities? People keep trying to fix the girls and it does not work.

But also, this is not just about exercise, it is about the right to public space. When teenage girls go to parks, they see nothing for them, so the message they get is that they don't belong here, they should go back home where they belong. It's about being part of the public body, the community. So if they want seats then we build them seats. And in fact what they seem to want most is swings.

It’s not about the nature of the spaces. If girls had free use of basketball courts or football pitches, they’d use them- whether for basketball or football, or for more imaginative games. They don’t, because those spaces are dominated by boys and the girls are intimidated and forced out. It gets worse as they get older because there are no parents around to enforce the rules. Not that there are any, because “boys will be fucking boys and fuck the girls”.
It’s such a basic thing, and I’d never really thought about it before. Thanks for starting this thread.

But most parks have seats and swings don't they?

Don't they say girls mature more quickly than boys? Perhaps they see parks as an activity for kids.

Still OP am not quite sure what kind of equipment you feel will encourage dancing at parks. Also with the rise of twerking am not sure having young girls dancing in parks is actually a great idea. Imagining trying to enjoy my park while kids are there "daggering" each other

We need Leslie Knope on the case! She'd be all for encouraging more young girls to enjoy their Parks & Recreation

@makespaceforgirls

A few general things which might be useful. First *@arethereanyleftatall* nails it here. This is the problem:

I think some posters are missing the point. Yes, the communal equipment provided could be used by boys or girls. The reality is that it's not, and girls are disappearing from parks around the age of ten. We do need to address why that is, and look for ways to accommodate them

But part of the reason why it arises at the age of ten is that parents are great enforces of equity. So it's much less of a problem when children are going to parks with their parents. The flip side of this is that if you see girls on the skate park when you are there, it's partly because you are there. You are the safety net which enables them to do this. Teenage girls tend to get up early to use skate parks so that they can do it before the boys are there. One girl told me she went just after it rained; the surface was a bit shit but it kept the boys away...

Love this, so I'm going to repost.

Was joking about the daggering too, BTW

@ScamTheSchool Do you need equipment for dance games?
No, not necessarily, but as above it sends a signal to the girls that they are welcome. And a stage, where it has been provided elsewhere, has been massively popular. Also, if you are on a stage you are less likely to get footballs kicked across your dance area.

@MamsellMarie I think the basis of this is the old fashioned assumption that boys need to be kept out of trouble by expending their energy on harmless activities. Girls don't
Yes. Police forces give money towards skate parks...

@AnUnlikelyCombination The reason girls don’t play football in the park is that boys won’t let them join in. My dd2 is a decent player (in a team) but has given up trying to join in park games as it’s either a flat out no or a refusal to notice she exists. It’s hard to find enough girls to make up a scratch park game, so just just plays at formal practices and matches

Only exception is if she knows the boys from school, and then sometimes they will let her join in, depending who it is
Yes. Boys territorialise the space, and this is the biggest problem for girls. The problem is possibly even worse in skate parks.

@makespaceforgirls

I mean, we can continue designing and implementing playparks which girls won't use, because they feel intimidated, or dominated over, or self conscious and then wonder why girls choose not to use public spaces. Or we can keep shouting that girls need to do more active exercise and wonder how they do that exactly when they won't use the public spaces

Or we can look at ways to make public spaces more attractive to girls in general and the exercise part of it will follow on from there

Fix the girls or fix the facilities? People keep trying to fix the girls and it does not work.

But also, this is not just about exercise, it is about the right to public space. When teenage girls go to parks, they see nothing for them, so the message they get is that they don't belong here, they should go back home where they belong. It's about being part of the public body, the community. So if they want seats then we build them seats. And in fact what they seem to want most is swings.

And this.

Someone up thread suggested getting the girls to speak up that it's their space too. Nobody has suggested speaking to the boys to make sure they're 'allowing' it.

So parents of boys need to start acting, as with many things (speaking as a parent with DS)

I haven’t read the whole thread - I know, annoying - this website has lots of good ideas for play spaces that might suit girls better and prevent boys taking over makespaceforgirls.co.uk/what-does-better-look-like/

@smoko

Don't they say girls mature more quickly than boys? Perhaps they see parks as an activity for kids.

Still OP am not quite sure what kind of equipment you feel will encourage dancing at parks. Also with the rise of twerking am not sure having young girls dancing in parks is actually a great idea. Imagining trying to enjoy my park while kids are there "daggering" each other

We need Leslie Knope on the case! She'd be all for encouraging more young girls to enjoy their Parks & Recreation

I'm not sure either myself smoko. All I know is that when I went to the park yesterday, I noticed it was full of teenage boys and no girls. And, interestingly, I'm 46, and never noticed it before - that's part of the problem, it's just normal. I'm so happy that people like @makespaceforgirls are actually trying to do something to address it. Actually talking to teenage girls about what they want. I'll start too!

When teenage girls go to parks, they see nothing for them, so the message they get is that they don't belong here, they should go back home where they belong. It's about being part of the public body, the community.

This is bollocks they just go to different spaces that aren't about exercise.

Shopping centres, cafes, cinemas. I see as many young girls out and about as I do boys.

@makespaceforgirls

I mean, we can continue designing and implementing playparks which girls won't use, because they feel intimidated, or dominated over, or self conscious and then wonder why girls choose not to use public spaces. Or we can keep shouting that girls need to do more active exercise and wonder how they do that exactly when they won't use the public spaces

Or we can look at ways to make public spaces more attractive to girls in general and the exercise part of it will follow on from there

Fix the girls or fix the facilities? People keep trying to fix the girls and it does not work.

But also, this is not just about exercise, it is about the right to public space. When teenage girls go to parks, they see nothing for them, so the message they get is that they don't belong here, they should go back home where they belong. It's about being part of the public body, the community. So if they want seats then we build them seats. And in fact what they seem to want most is swings.

Agreed. This is all epitomised by the phrase, identified in research surrounding this topic - 'With puberty, girls' worlds shrink, while boys' expand'. Why wouldn't we try to encourage girls to use public spaces - their public spaces.

Again, @DeepaBeesKit - that's all PAID FOR activities. The community is sending a message to teenage girls that boys are more important.

@Sirzy Secondly, why should girls have to fit their interests around those of boys? Why should only the girls that happen to enjoy football and skating (and good for them) have their needs explicitly catered for?

Surely that applies to boys too though? I know plenty of boys who aren’t interested in either

There are definitely loads of boys who also aren't interested in the default options offered by the park. However, we are Make Space for Girls partly because the discrimination is so overt, but also because the wording of the Equality Act means that we have to address it in terms of the protected group, which is sex.

@Samcro. Totally agree about inclusive parks, but although the situation is still terrible, there are more facilities for disabled children than there are for teenage girls. (And yes, this is shit vs very shit, neither is good).

@BoredZelda But we do have to challenge the sterotypes and instead ask why girls aren't skateboarding and playing football and apparently prefer to sit and socialise rather than exercise in public. I'd like to see that change before I agreed to see money ploughed in to making sure girls don't exercise
But are our constructs of what should be done in the park based on the default male? I am a middle aged woman and none of my female friends do organised sport, but they are all active - they run, they cycle they do yoga. Why do we have to fix the girls to fit the facilities?

And the first stage is to get the girls to the park.

It's profoundly depressing how sneery some posters are being about things that girls traditionally like.

Girls should be outside as much as boys. Some posters seem to think they should stay indoors if they prefer reading to football

I don't know when you last played netball but it is certainly not a gentle sport!!!!

Why do we have to fix the girls to fit the facilities?

We don't have to "fix" the girls. We have to "fix" a society that leads girls to make choices about their health based on a fear of body shaming or exercising in public.

And the first stage is to get the girls to the park.

No, the first stage is to encourage girls to do something other than sitting chatting because that's what groups like yours decide they want.

Two more general points.

One is that huge parts of this are about safety (and public toilets too, as referenced above). Girls need to feel safe in parks before they are going to do any exercise. We need to sort that.

But also, if you built what the trade calls a MUGA - a fenced pitch with narrow entrances - you build, in effect, a cage full of boys. What sensible girl - or woman - is going to enter that and try and get some exercise? Girls are designed out of the most common form of teenage provision.

The need for seating is part of that. Girls are not just sitting down, they are often scoping out the area to see if it is safe before joining in or doing something more active (there's some great info on how seats and skateparks interact for example).

BUT - and this is the second point - play for teenagers, both boys and girls, quite often looks like loitering, hanging around and chatting, and we need to get over that. This is their autonomous world, their only autonomous world, and we have to literally give them the space for that. And we have to listen to what they ask us for. When councils ask us what they should build, we say - no idea, go and ask your teenage girls.

totally agree about inclusive parks, but although the situation is still terrible, there are more facilities for disabled children than there are for teenage girls.

Bullshit. There are not more facilities for disabled children than there are for teenage girls. This statement shows just how removed from reality you are. Non disabled teenage girls CAN use all the equipment in the park if they choose to. There are places they can go to chat if they want. Disabled children CAN'T use the park, at all, not ever.

@Clymene Girls should be outside as much as boys. Some posters seem to think they should stay indoors if they prefer reading to football

One girl we spoke to in N London really wanted to feel safe to read in her local park - she lived in a small flat with loads of siblings and had no peace and quiet or time on her own. We don't yell at old people for not exercising in parks, they are for everyone to just have space in.

Also, there is a lot of research about how access to 'greenspace' - even just walking in a park for ten minutes a day - has a massive impact on mental health. Which is a huge issue for teenage girls. So they can do what they want in the park, it's much better than being at home full stop.