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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

... to ask about French stereotypes?

29 replies

LolaIsHome · 25/10/2021 15:21

As a result of a job change, I'm no working at a new company that HQ is based in France, dealing with their office a bit (every day in fact!). I did some French in school, was in Paris twice, but that's about it for me.

A few things I notice:

  • They seem fairly relaxed about working hours, and not contactable outside of office hours or weekends (that was not the case in my previous job, IT area)
  • While it's mostly English, a good amount of of email and lots of informal discussion in French
  • Almost all the management team are men

Any advice on working with French companies or organizations?

I've worked with UK and US companies before, but this feels very different.

OP posts:
akitamiss · 25/10/2021 15:24

No specific advice, but wondering if you'll get a chance to visit the team you work with, meet them face to face, go for dinner/drinks, etc. That might make a big difference.

It's great to work with an international company, mixed with different people in professional context and so on.

Maflingo · 25/10/2021 15:38

I don’t have much experience, but I believe the workers unions are quite strong in France, so working outside of “usual business hours” for example, is not usually done. If you are interested, it could be a good opportunity to brush up on your French, and learn some new business vocabulary? You might not get fluent, but if you can pick up enough to recognise the gist of the emails/discussion it might be helpful?

ImJustWaiting · 25/10/2021 15:54

There is a big big danger in stereotypes. Also, the specific company culture may be a much bigger factor than a crude outdated national stereotype.

I've worked in French people in the UK in the past, never in France. The ones I knew really did know their good wine :) And their good food :)

I should also say they dressed better than most of us, both the men and the women.

HundredMilesAnHour · 25/10/2021 16:56

Just like in the UK, the culture between companies (and industries) varies so no one size fits all. Same with working hours. French labour laws have historically placed some restrictions but a lot of companies got round that by paying extra days holiday/overtime for staff working longer hours. So you may find in some companies that people do work long hours but they will then take more holiday. Note that when a French public holiday falls on a Thurs, most people will take the bridge ("faire le pont") and be off on the Fri as well.

I studied in Paris, then worked for a French company in the UK for 7 years (language of the company was French for 3 years before it switched to being English). I later moved to another French company based in the UK but after 3 months was transferred to the Paris office where I was the only non-French person. Note that although these were "French companies", they were massive global players in our industry so very multi-cultural (unless you were in Paris where it was utterly French).

Apologies in advance as this is going to be more stereotypical than I would like and there are always exceptions to everything!

If you're UK based, you won't get exposed to be as much of the French way of working obviously compared to if you were working in France. But it helps to be aware of some key things. Family is important (hence minimal working out of office and especially not at the weekends). It used to be that French dads would start work later in the morning as they dropped the kids off at school before coming to work but they would work later as French mums would finish work early to pick the kids up (so the mums started work early and finished early). Massive generalisation but it was the case where I worked.

Food, wine and coffee are important (quality is more important than quantity). Basically quality of life is very important! This will permeate with most dealings you have with French people so think quality! And of course French quality is almost always the best! Wink Don't try to argue about this, it isn't worth the drama. And you may come across drama. The French do show their emotions at work so don't be surprised. They can be much shouting at times. My old French boss (in a German company!) once had a tantrum and stood up, hurled his laptop at the floor and stormed out of the office. It happens.

Meeting tend not to start on time. For a 2pm meeting, 2.10pm is the generally accepted start time. Don't book meetings first thing in the morning (due to people doing school drops offs) or over lunchtime (12-2pm). Lunch is only missed when something very urgent and important comes up.

Lunch at your desk eating a sandwich is generally considered disgusting. I was on my own in my French office one lunchtime so popped out and grabbed a sandwich and was happily Googling away back at my desk when I was discovered by my French boss. He was VERY unhappy with my "Anglo-Saxon behaviour". After that, whenever the guys I shared an office with where out at clients at lunchtime, some random French person would appear at my office door at noon to frogmarch me to lunch with them. No more Anglo-Saxon lunches for me lol Wink It was quite sweet really (and a bit exhausting). Get to a restaurant/cafe (staff canteen where possible) and have lunch with your colleagues, following by a coffee (espresso) afterwards. This is what civilised i.e. French people do. As a French colleague once said to me "if you don't have coffee after lunch, how does your body know that lunch is over?". The French take this very seriously (see quality of life above).

Social niceties are important. It is polite to always say good morning and ask how someone is. If you're in a French office, shake hands (or kiss - "faire la bise" if you know them well) when saying bonjour to each person as they arrive. And yes, you do this every single day without fail. The same process also applies when leaving the office so you need to "bonsoir" everyone. So remember your manners at all times!

I actually love working with French people but I appreciate that for some people they can be an acquired taste. Parisians especially. When I moved to Paris with my last role, I shared an office with the deputy head of the division plus 2-3 other people - none of this open plan stuff, it was a little rabbit warren of offices. The deputy head P was a complete arsehole to me. After a few days, P complained to me that my French wasn't good enough. This was bs as he hadn't actually heard me speaking French as I arrived when there was an American colleague visiting so everyone had been speaking English anyway! It gives you an idea of how unreasonable French people can be if they don't know you. So don't be surprised! But if you can win them over, they are the most wonderful, loyal, lovely colleagues/friends you can ever have! It took me a while and I had to prove my worth constantly - not just with the quality of my work but with how I ate lunch, what I ate and in what order, how I took my coffee, how I greeted people....basically how French I was! Years later, I still get tested by my former French colleagues e.g. invited for dinner at their houses and I get asked to guess what wine we're drinking etc. I have finally received the ultimate accolade from them which is "Hundred, she could be French". Grin I try to educate/torture them by introducing them to English food and wine (despite the faces pulled). I took some Nyetimber sparkling wine, which they did drink with the comment "hmm, it's better than bad French champagne" (that's a compliment btw). I also took a cheeseboard of small producer artisan English cheeses (unpasteurised of course - after I'd previously had a 3 hour lecture from a colleague about how the EU is destroying good cheese with pasteurisation). The feedback was "this cheese smells so bad, it could be French" and it all got eaten.

If you show an interest in the French way of doing things / culture / language, it will be very well received.

Sorry for the essay!!!

LolaIsHome · 25/10/2021 17:21

Thanks @HundredMilesAnHour it is very helpful context for me. Sadly I don't have any time or inclination learn to French language. It's also clear none of my English co-workers seem to have made an effort either. But I do like coffee and wine!

Based on the little I've seen there is also more bureaucracy than I'm used to as well. That was a bit of surprise. I hope to get to visit colleagues in France office in the coming months, but that's still tbd.

Another stereotype, it's also clear the French colleague I know best is having an affair. She's married with young kids, don't know how she finds the time!

OP posts:
AnotherEmma · 25/10/2021 17:30

What is it you want from this thread, lighthearted chat about stereotypes or a useful discussion about French working culture?

The French have very long lunch breaks. It would be completely unheard of to skip lunch or eat a sandwich at your desk.

As a general rule, France is less "progressive" than the U.K. in terms of gender equality so you might find that there is less female representation in management and in other areas... this is a generalisation of course.

HundredMilesAnHour · 25/10/2021 17:36

@LolaIsHome

Thanks *@HundredMilesAnHour* it is very helpful context for me. Sadly I don't have any time or inclination learn to French language. It's also clear none of my English co-workers seem to have made an effort either. But I do like coffee and wine!

Based on the little I've seen there is also more bureaucracy than I'm used to as well. That was a bit of surprise. I hope to get to visit colleagues in France office in the coming months, but that's still tbd.

Another stereotype, it's also clear the French colleague I know best is having an affair. She's married with young kids, don't know how she finds the time!

Ha yes, the French love a bit of bureacracy.

It sounds like you if you just do a token "Bonjour, comment ca va?" that you'll be ahead of your English colleagues so might be worth a go. You might be pleasantly surprised what a difference it makes. I work for a Swiss company these days but one of my senior stakeholders is French. Just because I have a token chat with him in French at the start of meetings (and obviously do my job well when working with his teams), he backs me to the hilt with anything work related. I kid you not.

If there's anything I can help you with in future, especially if you do go to visit the office in France, don't hesitate to PM me.

And yes, sounds like your colleague is doing the classic "cinq a sept" stereotype But her husband probably is too, or so the stereotypes would have us believe. Wink

MrsAvocet · 25/10/2021 17:51

My DH's company does a lot of business with a huge and well known French company and pre Covid he went to their HQ in Paris fairly often. He really likes it and gets along well with the people there, though the dynamic is a bit different as he's more of a customer than a colleague.
He was a bit taken aback by the lunch thing at first. Even the regular workers' canteen is impressive apparently, and when he eats with senior managers it is like a very good restaurant. He did make the "I'll just get a sandwich and work through" error once but realised that not only did this make everyone else think he was weird it was perceived as bad manners and people were actually offended. So he never did that again!
I don't know if that's France in general though, or just this particular company, so best to be guided by your colleagues I guess.

Southbucksldn · 25/10/2021 17:59

From experience I’d say French offices are more hierarchical.
Food and culture as a stereotype is very important and our vulgar ways such as the binge drinking culture are considered really bad manners.
I’d say if you are going to an office in Paris not to eat beforehand. After going to ours I usually come back on a diet and wearing dark clothes …..for at least a week.

dobbinsleftleg · 25/10/2021 18:14

Regarding business culture, my impression is that they have a stronger regard for hierarchy than in the UK. Things like your job title and grade being much more important in discussions, assigning actions, taking decisions and basically your value to the organisation.

Agree with others on the importance of a good lunch and the espresso afterwards, and could never square that with all the women having perfect figures. Either their metabolisms are raging hot or that is the only time they eat all day.

My colleagues also have a tendency to have side conversations in front of me in French about the work, which in the UK would be seen as rude but over there perfectly normal.

Like most cultural differences its all good fun to learn about and work out how to fit in.

Nayday · 25/10/2021 18:21

When working in France lunch time is sacred, and is 2 hours. Love that!

notimagain · 25/10/2021 18:22

Agree with HundredMilesAnHour’s comments, , but it is changing and from what I’ve heard certainly in some of the more techie industries you are expected to be more flexible these days than those working in the more traditional, more unionized occupations….

Even there though coffee is essential and eating at desk is a no no….

MuffinsAreJustCakesAtBreakfast · 25/10/2021 18:24

All of your colleagues based in France will go AWOL for July and August 😂

Dont expect to get anything done during these months.

ThinWomansBrain · 25/10/2021 18:26

I once had a french team member in a UK organisation that was doing all out on equality and diversity training.
He complained that we were not respecting his cultural diversity - he was French, so it was integral to his culture to be rude Hmm
he could be a bit abrupt at times!

ThinWomansBrain · 25/10/2021 18:26

*going, not doing

ellie21 · 25/10/2021 18:38

You say you don't have the inclination but if you can you should try and learn/attempt some French.
I lived and worked outside of Paris and in the North East of France and the only way you will really get to understand or bond with French people is if you make an effort.
The stereotype of course is all French people are rude. Some are, but the Brits in France are often regarded as far more ignorant/rude because they assume their language is superior and simply dont try.
I agree with the lunches/food importance. French people tend to take far longer lunches and then work late.
I absolutely loved working in France and met some of the most lovely people who taught me a lot about life/culture their way.
Hope it all goes well x

HundredMilesAnHour · 25/10/2021 18:50

@ThinWomansBrain

I once had a french team member in a UK organisation that was doing all out on equality and diversity training. He complained that we were not respecting his cultural diversity - he was French, so it was integral to his culture to be rude Hmm he could be a bit abrupt at times!
Ha indeed! I have a(nother) French business stakeholder at work and all the IT teams, including their senior management, are terrified of him. He's lovely really but can be very arsey when provoked (a.k.a. being classically French) and unfortunately they tend to provoke him quite a lot. He deliberately antagonises them as he finds it amusing but then it all goes too far and he starts shouting and IT try to defend themselves (and usually fail). Then I have to calm things down and get everyone to play nicely together again. He then says to me that he'll try to be nice to IT and I just laugh and say that the French govt will take his passport off him (i.e. being nice is not French lol).

My old French boss (the one who said my French wasn't good enough when he hadn't heard me speak French) always said "I am French, I am horrible, I am proud to be horrible." Admittedly he was a Breton living in Paris so a fiery combination. Wink

I love the French, I really do. They're so proud of who they are and they really don't give a damn what anyone else thinks. Not always the easiest people to work with but you have to admire their integrity and self-belief.

Shade17 · 25/10/2021 18:53

I don’t have much experience, but I believe the workers unions are quite strong in France, so working outside of “usual business hours” for example, is not usually done.

It’s not unheard of for international companies to have French speaking contact centres in the UK, partly for reasons relating to this.

FangsForTheMemory · 25/10/2021 18:54

They take lunchtime seriously, eat properly.

Monkeymilkshake · 25/10/2021 19:03

Dont work outside of office hours
Long lunch break (not in front of computer)
Loves a good moan
No problem with sick days/ school plays… there is life and there is work

Enjoy!
Ps: i am French :)

ellie21 · 25/10/2021 19:06

Also, don't dress like an English person ( this was me apparently.)

arethereanyleftatall · 25/10/2021 19:09

I worked in the uk alongside people working in France. It was an eye opener to be sure! August? Off. I used to make all the pos amd price lists etc for a retail company (in French ports). Say it was due to go live 3 September. Guy in France was to load up the tills. He'd just send an email on the 4th - 'didn't finish. Will do today.' Wtaf???? All the pricing should have changed! He couldn't give a shit.

CyclingUpHill · 25/10/2021 19:12

I've not worked in France, but a lot with/at our French office. In IT sector it is much less traditional, more progressive, etc. But agree with the summer month slow down. It happens everywhere in Europe I guess, but I've experienced nothing like the extent to which it happens in France.

I don't speak French (O levels), but know a few phrases and can read much better than people think :) I think it is polite to make some effort on the language front.

Big YES on the way French people dress in my experience, business casual but with a touch of flair we English don't seem to have :( And yes, the mistress thing is a big cliche, but so so true based on my limited experience with my closer friends. What surprised me was that these were not flings, or ONS, but actual longer term relationships.

tootootaataa · 25/10/2021 19:12

I work close to France and a lot of my colleagues are French who cross the border.

Personally they are lovely but to work with they are not my favourite. They moan, whine and suck the joy out of absolutely everything. There is a joke with the bosses that they should never hire a French person again.

Wine, coffee and chocolate is very important.

arethereanyleftatall · 25/10/2021 19:18

I also remember getting a customer complaint about 'the staff were surly'. Well, yes.