Tories allowing water companies to dump shit in rivers

[flashbac]

What is going on here? The Tories voted AGAINST restrictions on water companies dumping shit in rivers.
We are no longer protected by EU law on this so it's really bad for us and the environment. Remember water companies are private for-profit entities. Its cheaper to discharge raw sewage than to treat it properly.

Iggly
Why are you trying to deflect this on to Labour?

You were the one who talked about "decades" to fix this - Labour were in government for more than a decade.

The nuance is that the Tories privatised water companies on the basis that they were not investing in maintenance and upgrade of the water sewage systems way back in the days of thatcher.
And that the fabulous private sector would sort this out.

Socialist Worker 2019
the way Margaret Thatcher and Labour’s Tony Blair rigged the system...

“To make the water companies even more attractive to global capital, the New Labour government decided in 2002 to amend the licences under which they ran the supply.

“As a result, the companies cannot lose those licences to a rival unless the government has given them ‘at least 25 years’ notice’.”

socialistworker.co.uk/art/47698/The+tiny+group+controlling+Englands+water+industry

*They need to own this problem instead of trying to palm it off as “too complex”.

They weren't trying to "palm it off" -

deframedia.blog.gov.uk/2021/10/25/defra-response-to-environment-bill-storm-overflows-amendment-coverage/

And the Tories are the ones in power now.

To be fair, Labour are in charge in Wales and water is a devolved matter - I'm surprised that Welsh Labour haven't sorted it by now;

Welsh rivers had 100,000 sewage spills in a year ...

The discharges happened across more than 2,000 water treatment works and sewer overflows across the Dŵr Cymru Welsh Water network in 2020.

But the not-for-profit operator has insisted it is working to meet all environmental regulations.

Welsh Water said its operations are "highly regulated and closely monitored" by the Welsh government's environment authority, Natural Resources Wales.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56734857

If you are really bothered about this subject, you should stop flushing your shit down the toilet - or support an amendment to the environmental bill that mandates no solids down the toilet. You should bury your own shit in the garden - it will do wonders for your roses. You could put it in your household waste so it is incinerated or sent to landfill, or you could pay for a septic tank and disconnect your property from public sewers. You should demand your council replaces roadside drainage into sewers with roadside ditches. People with drives and gardens impermeable to water should have a surcharge on their water bills.

@jcyclops

If you are really bothered about this subject, you should stop flushing your shit down the toilet - or support an amendment to the environmental bill that mandates no solids down the toilet. You should bury your own shit in the garden - it will do wonders for your roses. You could put it in your household waste so it is incinerated or sent to landfill, or you could pay for a septic tank and disconnect your property from public sewers. You should demand your council replaces roadside drainage into sewers with roadside ditches. People with drives and gardens impermeable to water should have a surcharge on their water bills.

What a ridiculous response.

[quote Porcupineintherough]@MrsColon no that's wrong. The amendment would have made it illegal for any shit to be dumped into the river, meaning any company doing so could be prosecuted /fined.

In the short term this is exactly what would happen. Of course the shit wasn't going to be backflowed into people's homes, the system doesnt work like that. But it would have been a hell of an incentive for the companies to tackle the issue rather than to carrying on ignoring it and kicking the can down the road yet again.[/quote]
Have you not read the minutes of the discussion?

That's EXACTLY what would have happened - if the overflow into the river was blocked off, the sewage would have nowhere to go but back up the pipes.

@Tempusfudgeit

This particular amendment hadn't been costed, and was likely to run into many millions/billions. You can't upgrade Victorian sewage systems overnight, nor compel people to pay double/triple water rates to cover the upgrades. Sorry if that rains on anyone's 'Tories are scum' parade. Nuance, anyone?

I hope you're not bringing logic and reality to the thread.

@HeddaGarbled

The vote was on a specific amendment, which in the view of those voting against it, was unrealistic and counterproductive. It will now be reconsidered and, hopefully, a more realistic proposal made. The legislation has not been killed. It’s being tweaked. This is normal and proper Parliamentary procedure.

Found the MP!

A lot of money is wasted on fixing blockages etc from people flushing wipes, nappies, sanitary products etc down toilets and pouring fats and greases down the sink which affects the infrastructure. I’m not saying this would fix the problem but if people took some responsibility for that the money could be better spent elsewhere.

I noticed the water in Mundesley (Norfolk) smelt absolutely awful this summer, and there was brown foam. I had to machine wash our wet suits because they literally stank like we'd been rolling around on dig poo. This all makes sense now. Brexit is the gift that keeps on giving.

@babblingbumblingbandofbaboons yes what you say is how it should be, but many many water companies are utilising these overflows far in excess of when it's permitted and when river flow levels don't necessitate it. And that is before this current issue with the supply of chemicals for treatment.

This is well worth a watch. Horrifying stuff.

It's a programme called Riverside by Hugh Fernley-Whittingstall.

@HeddaGarbled

The vote was on a specific amendment, which in the view of those voting against it, was unrealistic and counterproductive. It will now be reconsidered and, hopefully, a more realistic proposal made. The legislation has not been killed. It’s being tweaked. This is normal and proper Parliamentary procedure.

If what the Tory MPs said, when they voted against the amendment, was true last week, it would still be true today.

If they sincerely believed it last week, they would surely sincerely believe it today.

However so many of them have been frightened by the outpouring of contempt and disgust from their constitiuents, that they have thrown themselves into reverse.

Every day the high ground I stand on, for not voting for either the Tories or Brexit gets a little higher.

I'm not in favour of dumping sewage into rivers but dumping it in the sea should be used more routinely. I live by the coast and know there is only one problem with dumping it in the sea, which is the pipes do not go far enough out. I was on the beach a few years ago and the smell of shit was disgusting; upon walking further upwind and looking back along the beach from a distance I could clearly see the brown area where the sewage was coming out of the pipe, deep brown at first then getting paler as it dispersed. It was fucking grim to be honest, people swimming and children splashing around in shit. It's crucial that the pipes are extended a few miles out into deeper water - this might be expensive initially, but water companies would save by not having to treat it first.

The good thing about dumping in the sea is that the sea is effectively self-cleaning. Whatever gets dumped in it gets eaten by fish or naturally degrades. I think people see plastic pollution and mistakenly believe that because shit is more offensive than plastic if you get it on your hands or in your mouth, it must be even worse in the sea too. That's simply not true.

[quote Porcupineintherough]@MrsColon no that's wrong. The amendment would have made it illegal for any shit to be dumped into the river, meaning any company doing so could be prosecuted /fined.

In the short term this is exactly what would happen. Of course the shit wasn't going to be backflowed into people's homes, the system doesnt work like that. But it would have been a hell of an incentive for the companies to tackle the issue rather than to carrying on ignoring it and kicking the can down the road yet again.[/quote]
no, porcupine, that is not what it says.

I can only assume that you have not read it and are spouting some nonsense you found scrawled on a lavatory wall, or in the Tory press, which amounts to the same thing.

The alternative, that you are deliberately lying, is too horrible to contemplate.

To save you the effort of looking it up on
[https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/2593/stages/15657/amendments/88348]]
here is the text:

In Clause 80, Page 74, line 34

at end insert—

“141ZA Duty on sewerage undertakers to take all reasonable steps to ensure untreated sewage is not discharged from storm overflows

(1) A sewerage undertaker must demonstrate improvements in the sewerage systems and progressive reductions in the harm caused by untreated sewage discharges.

(2) The Secretary of State, the Director and the Environment Agency must exercise their respective functions under this and any other Act to secure compliance with this duty.”

@HeddaGarbled

The vote was on a specific amendment, which in the view of those voting against it, was unrealistic and counterproductive. It will now be reconsidered and, hopefully, a more realistic proposal made. The legislation has not been killed. It’s being tweaked. This is normal and proper Parliamentary procedure.

Utter nonsense.

@Tempusfudgeit

This particular amendment hadn't been costed, and was likely to run into many millions/billions. You can't upgrade Victorian sewage systems overnight, nor compel people to pay double/triple water rates to cover the upgrades. Sorry if that rains on anyone's 'Tories are scum' parade. Nuance, anyone?

nonsense.

Read it.

That’s right. It’s terrible, but not surprising. Thames Water, for instance, has a Canadian pension fund as its main shareholder

Blame Canada is now stuck in my head.

And now this, dead and dying crustaceans washing up on beaches. A sanitary towel and other junk amongst them.
twitter.com/12BBYTHESEASIDE/status/1452164992845983744?t=CJB64FIMA74a7BRyPO9duw&s=19

Yeah well as long as the water company's profits are ok who cares how many other people's livelihoods are damaged. Or how much environmental damage is done.

This whole thing is a complete scandal, treating our waterways and seas like shit literally. How on earth can it be justified by the MPs who support it?