To think my daughters school is misusing isolation

[GrabbyAbbie]

My daughter is in year 9 at my local secondary school. She is generally a well behaved teenager, she has her moments but don't they all!, but generally keeps her head down and doesn't engage in negative behaviour.

However despite being a child who doesn't get in much trouble she has been put in isolation 3 times!

Once for drinking out of a water fountain - she apparently broke covid procedure ( this resulted in a full day of isolation) when I complained and said there were no cups or a warning on the fountain they said tough basically.
I accept she maybe should have been punished but maybe a warning of even a detention could have been used not isolation.

The other two times she was placed in isolation for a uniform issue and couldn't come out of isolation until I brought the correct uniform ( I work part time so if I hadn't have managed to bring the uniform in she would have been in isolation a full day)
The first time was a genuine mistake she thought she had to go in her pe kit in face she was told to by a teacher who got it wrong and the second time her shoes were broke so she had to wear trainers.
I get she should have had some sort of sanction but when I was at school isolations were for severe disruptive or aggressive behaviour and not for minor offences.
My friends son had been bullied for weeks violently and the culprit wasn't given a lesser punishment than my child.
Should I just suck it up? Am
I being a precious parent? Or is the school misusing isolation?

if other students see them wearing trainers then they will think they can get away with it too and the next day there will be more students in trainers.
And? Are student unable to complete school work whilst wearing trainers?

@thesnailandthewhale forgot to tag you in above.

Isolations should never be used. They serve no purpose in the long term. The children who act in an extreme way are usually calling out for connection- isolation is an easy way to sort it short term and completely goes against what these children need. It's a way of schools to manage 'behaviour' but keep their exclusion levels down. They are internal exclusions and are illegal.

Isolation for children who don't 'abide' by rules like uniform etc is just stupid! They're depriving a child of a days education. I usually find these over reactions happen in MAT's and it's a catch all thing.

www.gov.uk/school-discipline-exclusions
From Ofsted website:
Schools can punish pupils if they behave badly.

Examples of punishments (sometimes called ‘sanctions’) include:

a telling-off
a letter home
removal from a class or group
confiscating something inappropriate for school , eg mobile phone or MP3 player
detention'

So would isolation be covered by removal from a class or group?

'If you disagree with the way your child’s been punished, first talk to the headteacher. If you’re not satisfied, ask for a copy of the complaints procedure.' and presumably complain....?

Secondary teacher here-it sounds bizarre. I understood isolation to be necessary only where a pupil’s behaviour prevents the other students accessing their education. I would complain if it were my child-to the headteacher.

Those would be detentions and "note in planner" at our school. Repeated uniform issues would lead to isolation though.

They are not reasons for isolation.

1. Just tell her. And send an email to tutors to remind their class. Doesn't even need a punishment.

1. Clearly it was a mistake and didn't need punishment. Mistakes are deliberate misdemeanours. Especially when it turned out she didn't make a mistake - the adult in charge did.

1. Her shoes broke. I assume you emailed or sent a letter stating you'd be getting some on x date? If they broke at 8.30am what did they expect her to do? Again - if she's usually in uniform it's pretty obvious it's genuine and broken shoes don't require punishment. In fact punishing for this risks the very real consequences of growing the gap between rich and poor again. Some families may need to wait until payday.

It's this sort of crap that is causing the rise of MH issues in teens.

The constant worry that any slight thing they make a mistake over will have severe consequences.

It amazes me people can't relate the increased anxiety amongst that age group with a zero tolerance no life events allowed approach they are subjected to daily.

That sounds ridiculous a d I would actually make a formal complaint. DH is a secondary teacher and he agrees.

Some schools do seem to going down the ultra-strict route. My DC started secondary this year and is absolutely terrified of getting a detention which seem to be freely handed out for the most minor infringements. There have been so many complaints that the headteacher had to address it in the latest newsletter. The argument was that they need to have very strict standards on behaviour to enable all children to be able to learn but I'm sure they should be able to discipline the badly behaved students without terrifying the majority who behave well. Children don't learn well in an environment of fear.

Not a catholic school in Durham is it?!

They have ridiculous rules and harsh sanctions

Fuck knows what they do when a kid is actually naughty and disruptive

@Volhhg

Why do parents accept it? Dread to think What else goes on?

If it's an academy they have no choice as there's no accountability.

But if it's a LA school you can complain, so do. As a pp said, it's supposed to be a step away from temporary exclusion, not a sanction for minor infractions.

All that was needed for the drinking fountain incident was to tell her not to do it again, surely?

DD’s former school is like this although they’re allowed to wear all black trainers. For some reason the head thinks good behaviour will help with his ambition to make it the best school in the country. In reality genuine bad behaviour and bullying is not being effectively tackled and pastoral care is very poor. The kids describe it as a prison and these sanctions are just an easy win for the teachers, who I presume are under massive pressure from the top and also beyond stressed.

Not a catholic school or an academy.

Our Secondary school does afterschool detentions not isolations (which frankly sound appalling to me and of no educational value).

The detentions are for disruptive behaviour. The threshold for disruption is very low so bad behaviour in class is rare.

None of the things you mentioned would have resulted in a detention as they were not intentional bad behaviour.

My DD once accidentally went in to school in her PE kit on a normal uniform day. I simply got a call asking if I could bring in the right clothes as DD was a bit embarrassed to be in her PE kit by mistake. There was no talk of punishment at all and DD was looked after and comforted by the staff because she was a bit upset. That was the right way to handle a simple mistake in my opinion. There was no need for anger and punishment.

Our Secondary school isn't perfect but when I read some of the things other schools do I'm so glad my kids are at the school they're at.

It sounds completely OTT and an abuse of power by particular teacher(s)

My DCs school wouldn't have used isolation for wrong uniform- surely that would just mean children who don't have the right shoes don't bother going in?!

The old head teacher had a policy of keeping a whole collection of spare uniform and shoes. If you didn't have the right uniform you were sent to get the right uniform. It worked well, as kids who genuinely couldn't afford a bee blazer when they lost the theirs got one and kids who just tried to get away with trainers were given plump soles. (Which did lead to other students wearing pumps to school but it didn't seem to be a big issue)

They were more bothered about banishing energy drinks than incorrect uniform.

I think they did away with isolation altogether.

We live abroad and I thank the lord we don't have school uniforms, crazy rules or overzealous rule enforcers.

I think all of these punishments are excessive. Drinking water from a water fountain is normal and if it was ide tified as a significant COVID risk, there should have been a sign. The PE kit error was due to her teacher.. but presumably the whole class would have done this? Trainers instead of school shoes should probably have come with a note from home to her class tutor.

Secondary school teacher here also. Seems harsh to me. The fountain drinking I would imagine would be a verbal warning at my school- unless this wasn’t the first time she had done this? We had tape all over ours last year so couldn’t really have happened. The wearing PE kit, probably sent home to change. The broken shoes- note from head of year explaining the reason and giving permission. The last one often happens. We wouldn’t have the staff to even cover this level of isolating students.

My DD's previous school had this zero tolerance approach and all the kids seemed to live in constant fear. My DD ended up having panic attacks.

She is a well behaved rule follower but she was put in isolation for a day, given a week of lunchtime detentions and the school wanted to put her on a behaviour report for a month.

Her crime was posing for a photo during school time. Phones are not allowed on the premises at all. Another child who is always in trouble for one reason or another ( including for previously bullying my DD) came into the toilets while my DD was there and took a photo of her with her phone. Because my daughter looked like she was posing for the photo she was punished. The school also said the punishment was for not reporting the other girl for having a phone on her. My daughter was afraid of this girl already so was hardly going to snitch.

I had to accept the isolation and the week of detentions but I argued strongly against the behaviour report on the basis my daughter had not even had a single negative behaviour mark on her record in the entire time she had been at the school. I was quite angry about the whole thing and have since removed her from the school.

I am now very worried for my primary school children's future. No wonder It is said that UK kids have more anxiety disorders in comparison to other countries. The story the mobile phone and not telling a teacher on the other child is so bad

Is there a way of finding out which schools use these punishments for absurd reasons?

Why on earth are parents not standing up for their kids?
Punishment is for deliberate rule breaking, not for things completely outwith their control.
Unexpected shoe failure - not everyone has multiple pairs of school/dress shoes & that is something to be resolved/managed by the parent and if it happens at 8 am on a monday morning, even with the best will in the world they are not going to be replaced in time for school. The child has no control over this what so ever.
Surely a letter or a phonecall from the parent explaining and that should be the end of the matter. Even if it takes until payday.

What would mr wonderful HT do if his new puppy was sick in his shoes just before he was to leave for work? he'd wear another pair, which may or may not be suitable
Or if he stepped in a huge puddle on his way in and got a shoe utterly soaked through? Would he squelch about all day or would he change into the pair of trainers he had in his gym bag as he was going to play squash on the way home? In offices and workplaces up and down the country, a fool would squelch all day, someone sensible would be dry and comfortable & nobody would give a damn.

@Volhhg schools are usually quite up front about their discipline policy and to be be honest I originally chose the school because if it.

Our closest school has an issue with bad behaviour in the lower ability sets so I thought this other one would suit her better as she is a good girl who just struggles academically. They ensure classroom behaviour is excellent and ofsted rated them outstanding in this area.

I didn't realise that the constant strict discipline would affect her so negatively. I can only describe the atmosphere at the school toxic.

She is at a much more relaxed school now ( we had to reluctantly transfer her to an independent school ) and is so much happier.

The arguments about choosing wisely fall flat if a new head or academy trust takes over. MN is full of parents whose school suddenly decides to implement a new behaviour policy with harsh sanctions and often ridiculous and expensive new uniform. You can find yourselves powerless to object and subject to all kinds of nonsense from school as moving school can be very difficult.

This sort of thing was standard at my DS's school until hundreds of parents signed a petition wanting sanctions to be proportionate to the offence.

So instead of isolation now when kids forget a pen, drink out of the wrong fountain, stand in the wrong line, wear the wrong type of shoe etc, they get a first warning and a call home to a parent to sort of nudge them into complying with the rules. If it happens a second time that week, they have a half hour detention after school.

Forgetting homework, not paying attention in class etc is all a first warning and then a 1hr detention at the end of school to complete the homework/classwork if it happens again.

Swearing, bullying, violence, destroying property, theft etc is all immediate isolation and dependent on situation, a referral to the in school social worker and community policing team.

All exclusions are internal, so they're in the isolation rooms for however long they'd have been suspended for. Any offence that would be dealt with by police outside of school, so any sexual harassment, hate crime, weapon carrying, drugs etc is an immediate call to the police with a formal report filed and probably carries a permanent exclusion.

So far, everyone seems to be complying with this new set of rules and kids aren't feeling like criminals if they forget their highlighters for English, nor are little bastards laughing their heads off that they beat someone up and only had to sit in the isolation room with the kids who forgot pens.