Page 4 | Why report the descent of a person when committing a crime?

donemeover · 2021-10-21T21:54:35+00:00

I totally understand if the perpetrator is not yet found why their race or descent might be crucial to solve the crime and identify a person. But why is reporting the descent and race of a criminal even mentioned by the media? It serves no purpose to the crime itself. I'm referring to the murder of the MP, every other newspaper mentions the murderer is of Somali descent. Why? It's very tragic the MP has been killed, but I can't help notice this is an example of how racism is so entrained in society that these subtle ways of reporting just normalise it. Sad on both counts, the racial reporting and the murder itself.

Fujimora · 22/10/2021 12:19

Why isn't the descent of a white person ever reported on? Because it's irrelevant

As a British citizen of Irish descent I can assure you that Irish was/is always used when describing those responsible for politically motivated crimes in UK. The Irish bit is relevant because it explains the motivation for the crime.

There is an exact parallel here to a British citizen of Somali descent committing a politically motivated crime. The Somali bit is relevant because Somalia is a place in which Islamist extremism is flourishing and it explains the likely motivation for this crime.

Thecurtainsofdestiny · 22/10/2021 12:26

Danilo Restivo is described as " an Italian double murderer".

Marek Harcar ( killer of Moira Jones) was described as a "Slovakian man".

I'm not sure their backgrounds were relevant at all to their crimes, yet these details were reported.

Redredwiney · 22/10/2021 12:48

@Thecurtainsofdestiny

Danilo Restivo is described as " an Italian double murderer".

Marek Harcar ( killer of Moira Jones) was described as a "Slovakian man".

I'm not sure their backgrounds were relevant at all to their crimes, yet these details were reported.

But they weren’t British, so that’s different. I don’t think either were British citizens.

RandomLondoner · 22/10/2021 12:48

They're saying 'of Somali descent' in order to avoid saying 'Black'.

No, in this context "Somali" is code for Muslim, not black. (I know someone else has already said this, just backing them up. And suprised this isn't obvious to everyone.)

RedMarauder · 22/10/2021 12:57

@RandomLondoner So why don't they just say "Muslim" and state what his father did as that would make more sense to the story?

Thecurtainsofdestiny · 22/10/2021 13:24

@Redredwiney

Yes I'm aware of that.

My point was that irrelevant information gets reported.

TSSDNCOP · 22/10/2021 16:05

It's code for "we have the terrorist, relax obviously they are not a white dude, they might be as British as cream tea but they're X descent so you all know who to blame."

Stoppochoco · 22/10/2021 16:16

its been reported as a terrorist incident, so his origins are presumably relevant.
If a white english person committed a similar crime, with a large extended Irish family that would be reported.

Soontobe60 · 22/10/2021 16:22

[quote donemeover]@GreenTeaPingPong it's not relevant though.

Why isn't the descent of a white person ever reported on? Because it's irrelevant.

Most peadophiles are white men / they dot. Start tracing back their descent? Ever.

It's another way of saying the person isn't 'true British'. It's subtle racist. [/quote]
Pedophilia isn’t the same as terrorism. It has sod all to do with race, political beliefs, religious beliefs or ideological beliefs.

Terrorism is the use or threat of action, both in and outside of the UK, designed to influence any international government organisation or to intimidate the public. It must also be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause. Ergo, it’s most often a person of one race attacking someone from another race.
When it’s a white person who’s the terrorist, they are usually referred to as a white supremacist.
Maybe the news should have just stated “a human being attacked another human being’.

Soontobe60 · 22/10/2021 16:28

@TSSDNCOP

It's code for "we have the terrorist, relax obviously they are not a white dude, they might be as British as cream tea but they're X descent so you all know who to blame."

It’s frankly insulting that you seem to think all white persons might this. I for one didn’t automatically think the person was a terrorist, black, or male, or young / old / mentally unwell. People do horrendous things to other people for all sorts of reasons.

Impier · 22/10/2021 16:32

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7613/CBP-7613.pdf

Page 26 of this government report shows the religion and ethnicity of terrorist and extremist prisoners in the UK. It is clear that some religions and ethnicities are over and under represented in these statistics compared with the proportion of the population. Until this unbalance is addressed, both religion and ethnicity are relevant in these crimes.

RedMarauder · 22/10/2021 17:11

@Impier

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7613/CBP-7613.pdf

Page 26 of this government report shows the religion and ethnicity of terrorist and extremist prisoners in the UK. It is clear that some religions and ethnicities are over and under represented in these statistics compared with the proportion of the population. Until this unbalance is addressed, both religion and ethnicity are relevant in these crimes.

The religion of the guy wasn't mentioned it was left to people to presume.

Mrstamborineman · 22/10/2021 18:39

Yabu it’s news. People want to know what is happening

Original poster

donemeover · 22/10/2021 20:14

@Cocoabutterkim

Because his ethnicity is relevant to this particular crime. In the same way if a crime was suspected as mafia related the fact that the perpetrator was of Italian descent would be relevent.

Sexual abuse crimes against kids aren't usually related to ethnicity.

**Unless your of Asian descent

what's unless you have Asian descent?

OP posts:

TSSDNCOP · 22/10/2021 20:47

@Soontobe60 I am talking about the way it is reported and if you listen carefully it's only ever a matter of short time before it happens.

Testingprof · 22/10/2021 21:18

@velvetstar

The background origin of someone is hugely relevant in terrorism situations. It's an attack on a country, it's people and it's ideals. It shouldn't be in the least bit surprising that people find it relevant whether that attack is from someone with strong ties to another country.

People also have the desire/need to understand what drives someone to commit such an awful act. That involves understanding their past and their beliefs. It's helps us to rationalise something awful.

It's relevant that everyone knew Jo Cox's killer was a white, British, right-wing man with ideation who was largely socially isolated. It's relevant that Sir David Amess's killer has very close family links to Somalian politicians and links to religious ideation that promotes murder.

It would be absolutely no use to know his colour without heritage. That tells you nothing other than what he looks like.

In terms of the British when it suits and 'othered' when it doesn't, I agree this happens but I don't think it's surprising or just related to race. When anyone does something awful people want distance from them, they don't want to be grouped with them by association.

Most people know Sir Mo Farrah is Somali-born but he's proudly considered British because he's taken on the ideals of what that means. We all want to be associated with him (though few could ever hope to live up to what he's achieved).

Hand-wringing about the identification of the heritage of a terrorist is a perfect example of virtue-signalling and misplaced outrage. There are serious issues with racism in this country but I don't think this kind of distraction is at all helpful to solving that.

Is the background being important true of far right terrorists?

For all the people coming out and finding the background of Jo Cox’s murderer, I can see no mention of his ethnicity or heritage in the early reporting of the crime.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58998637

Testingprof · 22/10/2021 21:21

@Impier

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7613/CBP-7613.pdf

Page 26 of this government report shows the religion and ethnicity of terrorist and extremist prisoners in the UK. It is clear that some religions and ethnicities are over and under represented in these statistics compared with the proportion of the population. Until this unbalance is addressed, both religion and ethnicity are relevant in these crimes.

Yes well that assumes that each person has an equal chance of being jailed for the same crime but there’s enough research which shows white people are the least likely to be given a custodial sentence….

Fujimora · 22/10/2021 22:18

there’s enough research which shows white people are the least likely to be given a custodial sentence….

We are discussing acts of terrorism here. Can you point us to the research you quote which demonstrates that “white people” are less likely to be given a custodial sentence than other ethnic groups?

Skysblue · 22/10/2021 22:41

It did strike me as a bit weird when I read that news story, yes. I felt like some kind of point was being made but I wasn’t sure what. I wondered if it was some kind of explanation for his behaviour (ie troubled background cos Somalia is a mess), or a weird attempt to avoid anti-Arab feeling in the area, I dunno. Maybe it was just racist 🤷‍♀️

HTH1 · 22/10/2021 22:55

@MummyJasmin

Agreed. In the same vein, if it were a British athlete who won Olympic Gold for example they'd report him as British - they wouldn't report him/her as a British athletes of Somali decent winning gold.

But when it comes to criminality and its a black or brown person, despite being British their ethnicity has to also be mentioned....

Not true e.g. look at the coverage of Emma Raducanu’s US Open win.

The background of all criminals in high profile criminal cases is publicised (as a PP said, the background is relevant here so that should not be suppressed).

RedMarauder · 23/10/2021 14:18

@Fujimora

there’s enough research which shows white people are the least likely to be given a custodial sentence….

We are discussing acts of terrorism here. Can you point us to the research you quote which demonstrates that “white people” are less likely to be given a custodial sentence than other ethnic groups?

You must have missed this news story then - www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/01/judge-orders-rightwing-extremist-to-read-classic-literature-or-face-prison

Luckily with media reporting of it the sentence was reviewed.

I think the poster you quoted was referring to the Lammy Report. The report doesn't break down figures by religion because it can't as the relevant data hasn't been collected.

RedMarauder · 23/10/2021 14:23

@HTH1 Emma Raducanu suffers from another stereotype that the people of Chinese and mixed Chinese heritage I know suffer with from society -"Model minority".

Fujimora · 23/10/2021 16:34

@RedMarauder

I think The Lammy Report was talking about the judicial system in general - not about sentences for terrorism.

Also as Lammy thinks men can grow a cervix I fear I am now sceptical about anything he puts his name too.

flippertyop · 23/10/2021 16:37

He committed a territorial and political act and therefore his decent is relevant. I am sure they would have mentioned his heritage if he was French or polish. Maybe save your concerns for the family of the innocent person he murdered

RedMarauder · 23/10/2021 16:55

@Fujimora The Lammy Report actually does mention terrorist convictions. The number of people convicted was very low in the year the report used.

One of the issues is while the prison service collects statistics on religion of prisoners other parts of the criminal justice system don't.

I've been told by people who work in the prison service and people who have ended up in prison that people do and can change religions in prison.