In suggesting whether you are pro or anti the 11+ exam is down to whether you or your offspring failed or is it more nuanced than that.

[redhilary]

The 11+ results have just been released across all the LEA that still have Grammar School provision. Every year around this time, I notice this site and others promote those that past as winners and those who failed as losers. Inevitably this provokes hatred towards the system, by those whose offspring had failed one test at the age of ten. The fury of parents is invoked who believe, academic opportunities have been withdrawn to their children at the age of just 10.

On the other side for some parents, the passing of the 11+ is giving their children great academic opportunities. Therefore, they are entirely grateful for their children to be educated in one of the remaining 163 Grammar Schools in England. Many of these parents actively sought out the 11+ Exam by moving areas. In so doing they maybe risked that their child might fail, (even if the child concerned had extensive tutoring) Are these parents views tainted by their child's failure.

On a personal note I come from a 'blended' family on the pluses and negatives of the 11+ Exam. I passed the 11+ so did my younger sister , my brother failed . Brother ended up at the local Secondary Modern, where my mother taught who was at the time politically hard left Thus, mother was an ardent protester against the 11+. My Father is/was a 'dyed' in the wool Tory existed at the other end of the political spectrum ( the discord between the two about the merits of the 11+ and the Miners Strike was interesting to say the least)

In terms of achievement it is my brother who is the one who has excelled most. This, with a P.H.D in Chemical Engineering and a place on the board of a large American Company. My sister is a H.O.D of English at a Kent Girls Grammar School.

Personally, i have just been employed or trapped in mid -management since my thirties.

Red hillary just because you passed the 11+ doesn't mean your dp had to send you.

I've never seen the type of disparaging comments you mention at all.

However there was an extremely well known 11+ hater on here and it turned out her dd went to a bloody grammar and she spent years lamenting about her son having to go to the secondary modern whilst declaring "it wasn't really" him "".

Meh. I passed, but went to a comp as we moved to a different county. I did better in GCSEs and A levels than the people who were my peers that passed.

DD could be coached to pass, but I don’t see the point as it’ll just put her on a back foot. They’re coached to pass the exam, not to cope with the work load/pace at a grammar school.

It’s a moot point though, as the county we’re in doesn’t sit the 11+ but you can opt to take it (none this year in DDs year).

I can’t get excited about it.

Most people never even have to think about the 11+ as its not relevant, they're still able to have an opinion on the matter

163/32,028 schools in the U.K. are grammars.

The subject gets a completely disproportionate amount of attention.

Quilted. That's why i ask in the title of the post is someone's opinion more nuanced than just being based on whether they passed or failed.

I went to grammar school. We don't live in a grammar school area now so my dc didn't take the 11+. I am a teacher, and even though I did very well out of my grammar school education, I am against the 11+. So yes, I do think it is more nuanced.

If I happened to live in a gs area, would I send my dc to grammar school if they were able to pass the 11+? Yes. Because you can only use the system you have and it would be foolish to choose to send your child to a school that wasn't suitable for their ability level. But I do not think it is good to segregate children into different institutions based on a snapshot of a certain type of ability when they are 10/11.

I went to a grammar school (and there aren’t any state grammars in the local area, so it’s irrelevant when it comes to my own children) but am vehemently against them in principle. Selective schools breed elitism, and I have more socialist values.

I went to grammar school and I have a lot of my friends from there on Facebook. The ones who came from private schools are in the whole quite rich business owners/in finance, those of us from less affluent backgrounds pretty much all work in the public sector ( all aged 50). So not much social mobility there ( and lots of evidence in my current grammar school area that it’s the rich tutored kids who take most of the places.

Until recently I was a foster carer. I had several grammar school children and none were innately brighter than their high school counterparts. They had just had tutoring. From having children at most local schools over the years, I haven’t seen any particular advantages or better teaching at the grammars. Parents tend to be richer and so they are able to raise more money for the school and so have better equipment, but being smaller they offer less options, especially in Yr12 and 13. Personally I think finding a good match - a sporty school for a sporty child etc and being a supportive parent who respects their child’s choices is the most important thing for success and happiness.

I think that's because Mumsnet posters children are hugely represented within the 0.5% of schools that exist as Grammar Schools. If Mumsnet posters are not Grammar Schools parents, they are likely to be investing in Private Schooling!

I went to a grammar and have one child in a grammar. I sent him there because it was the best school in the area. But - I think they are elitist. I’m from N.Ireland where the 11+ is normal. It produces a vast amount of very bright kids BUT it also produces the highest amount of kids with zero qualifications so it definitely benefits some at the expense of others. I am a member of the Labour Party and wouldn’t be sad if the eleven plus was done away with. Saying that, the whole private school system is the real problem so grammar schools are a straw man.

I'm against because they shouldn't still exist when such a huge majority don't even get a chance to apply.
My children went to/will go to a school in special measures because that's all there is unless we move, lie about our religion or pay for private.

Mafted. Would you like the chance for your children to go to a Grammar or another type of selective school, say a Sport's school or Technical/Art one.

I grew up in a grammar school area but at the time there was no 11+
Instead it was an assessment at 13 after 2 years of secondary school
I didn't make the cut but got good GCSEs without too much effort.
I went to Grammar school for my A levels and hated it. Could not get on with the style of teaching. Went back to my secondary, still made little effort and scraped through my a levels.

I did go to Uni and now I have a really good job that I love.
My cohort from the comp has done really well. No better than the grammar - in fact there is a wider variety of careers.
Long story short, I don't think Grammar schools produce any real benefit. They actually detract from a community.
I now live in a different grammar school area and my child is due to take the 11+ next year.
I'll probably get his assessed privately early next year. And if they say all he needs is practice papers then I will put him in for it.
That makes me sound like a hypocrite based on what I wrote earlier! But somehow despite what I know, I'm somehow sucked into it (at least in a smaller way)

I passed the 11+ and went to Grammar. I really wish we didn't have the Grammar system here. It just makes the non-Grammar schools worse. We live right near one of the Grammar's and the Comprehensive next to it has a very bad reputation despite being in an affluent area! I also dislike feeling that I need to put my DD through the 11+ so if she is the right kind of academic she can go to the Grammar.

I lived in a county where there was the 11+ and I failed it so went to the secondary modern. We don't live there now and my dc go to the local "requires improvement" comprehensive.

I hate the grammar school system. I don't know if part of it is that schools in general have improved since 1990's but my dc's comprehensive school is so much better than my secondary modern. Because I was quiet and handed in my homework on time I was considered "academic" and strongly encouraged to follow the academic pathway of English, English lit, french, maths, technology, double science, either history or geography and one option of my choice for gcse. The non academic pathway was English, maths, single science, french, maths, technology and 3 options of their choice. I have an IQ of 99 and was undiagnosed dyslexic so was in no way academic. I did fairly badly in my gcse's and only passed 3 of them, similar to many other people who were supposedly "academic" . When I later applied for university I had very little support/advice from the school and there were only 3 of us applying. Meanwhile my sister at the grammar was being taken on school trips to university open days and generally getting much more help with her application.

25 years later my sons are thriving at their comprehensive school. There are so many more choices and support for them. My ds1 would probably have got into a grammar school. My ds2 might have scraped through but would have struggled with the pressure. My eldest is able to take the GCSE subjects that interest him and my youngest is being supported with his mental health problems alongside his learning.

WC, council estate kid here who life was transformed by the opportunity given to me by grammar school. But I’m from NI where the system is still very much in place and not depended on the area you live in, so it’s not about class there. Or money particularly. In
My schoolWe’re we’re all mostly inner city kids with the odd ‘MC’ kid.I’ve never seen the ‘loser’ label you talk about out on a kid who didn’t pass the 11+ on SM or anywhere else. So it is much more nuanced.

I didn’t grow up in a grammar area but deliberately moved into a grammar area when DC was junior age.
I’m in Lancashire in an area with one grammar school. Rest are comprehensives. It bears no resemblance to super selectives posters talk about in some areas.
Here there’s a catchment and if you pass you are in. Less apply in catchment than places - 100 out of 150 places fill from catchment. Parents tend to be sensible and only put in children with a decent chance/suited to it. A top table child with some prep will pass it’s not genius level. The rest of the schools are good or outstanding with very good results.
The remaining 25% of places go to out if catchment and that’s a lot more pressured.
For us DC passed and it has been good fit for her. The grammar is generally seen as a plus in the area attracting parents who are interested in education which benefits all the local schools. The grammar sixth form for A levels is open to pupils from all the local schools.

I went to GS and as an adult gave reakiard how unfair the system is

My county is grammar. Its amusing that honest to goodness, 80% of the parents assume their child is grammar material from age 5. In the better state schools, maybe 25-30% of the class get in. The poorer schools its 0-10%. The preps get 75-80% of their kids passing and cream off many of the places.

People seem oblivious to the fact that unless their child is on the top group for reading, writing and maths, plus works well under pressure and "gets" the verbal reasoning type stuff, the secondary modern awaits.

• have realised

Went to grammar. Hated grammar.
Child would have passed 11+ (not being humble brag, he’s ridiculously clever) but didn’t put him in for it as I don’t like what grammars stand for.
Locsl state academy is half selective - weird test that apparently doesn’t count thing - IMO breeds parents thinking they, and their children are special. Have picked state ‘normal’ school as even though ofsted isn’t as ‘outstanding’ the school clearly focused on education not reputation.

I'm unsure about grammars...and I've got 3 kids in grammars!
I wouldn't be able to afford to live in a “nice” area with a good school. My old house in a non grammar town would have meant my children went somewhere very much non academic. And they are all academic (no tutoring for the test). So my kids get to go to “outstanding” schools, despite me being a single mum on not a lot, and they have avoided the sort of bullying I received for being classed as a swot. So it's worked well for my 3.
But...there is definitely a class thing at one of the schools. My boys complain that everyone is rich (compared to us...mine were on free school meals). Boys were promised x boxes/money for doing well in the test, and many have been tutored so much (at great expense) it obscures the fact that many are not able to motivate themselves to study. Kids are bussed in from all over the place; local kids are not a priority. Going there is seen as a status thing for some parents...its just a bloody school, it doesn't mean anyone is “better” than anyone else!
It's hard. Well off people can pay for private schools or move house for schools, they are always going to have the upper hand. But for a family like mine, the ability to go to a grammar school has meant my children are being educated in a better environment than I was.

@redhilary

Mafted. Would you like the chance for your children to go to a Grammar or another type of selective school, say a Sport's school or Technical/Art one.

No. I'd like all children to be able to go to a decent school near their homes. My parents went to grammar and private school. I refused to sit the entrance exam for private school. We could afford private for ours.

Not read the thread but my 2 pence worth.

Not really invested as 11plus not an option her BUT
Overall I can see pros and cons to system.
I dont think its a good idea to have a system that leaves some 11 yr olds feeling like failures which is how im sure some feel if the dont pass. But i do think that academic people prob benefit feom an academic envieoment. Although the world cant exists with academica alone. If we ever needed proof thie last 18 minths has show that lorry drivera, shop staff, farmers etc are vital. So while i think academic schools may be beneficial i also feel that t we need to celebrate all the other skills in the same way. I couldnt drive a lorry to save my life so i think those who can are exceptional.
Overall i thinck that society places too much emphasis on academia and not enough of vital skills

One of mine went to grammar and one went to comp.

They both did okay.

I am pro 11+.