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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Katharine Birbalsingh made Social Mobility chief, aibu not to have a good feeling about this?

149 replies

PasstheBucket89 · 18/10/2021 11:49

Her school does apparently have very good results for GCSEs

but im a bit wary of this, her views are quite regressive, what does she have to offer children who are disabled or who have disadvantaged background.

Aibu to feel worried about some of the views conveyed here, in a role with children?

OP posts:
3scape · 19/10/2021 11:36

Again the obsession with conflating buying IN to the established power Oxbridge/ white male privilege as social mobility criteria. It's like a bonkers pyramid scheme.

1Week · 19/10/2021 12:41

@3scape

Again the obsession with conflating buying IN to the established power Oxbridge/ white male privilege as social mobility criteria. It's like a bonkers pyramid scheme.
But society IS a pyramid. I don't think it can even changed - can it? (Even if we stopped using wealth as a metric, wouldn't we use looks/taste/social circles? We already do to an extent) Surely the best way would be a proper meritocracy so anyone from whatever background can move as high as they can, WHILE ensuring the base has an adequate standard of living.

"Buying in" is not ideal. But it's bonkers to think people won't provide their kids with what they think is necessary for them to thrive.
I insist mykids eat their veg - it's necessary for them, and I won't not because some parents don't/can't and I'm providing my kids with unfair health privilege.
Small example but it's the same dynamic.

Parker231 · 19/10/2021 12:54

Three hours homework a night and more at weekends is ridiculous. No one needs that amount of study on top of a day at school. My DT’s - high achieving private school probably averaged an hour - hour an a half a night with a couple of hours at the weekend in the weeks leading up to their exams.
There is more to school life than study. Continuing with sports or other after school activities should be mandatory. Too many children don’t do enough sport or recreational activities.

GreenLakes · 19/10/2021 12:59

@Parker231

3 hours study a night and 8 hours over the weekend is the minimum expectation for year 11 at both of my DCs’ schools. We as parents have to sign off to say this has been completed.

This is expected to increase significantly in the run up to exam periods.

It’s not a coincidence that both schools have excellent academic results.

Parker231 · 19/10/2021 13:07

GreenLakes - as both DT’s got all A’s at GCSE and A levels and 1st in their degrees, I think I prefer the approach we used. We wanted well rounded children and not hot housed children without any enjoyment in their school days. I would worry about children’s mental health with such pressure put on them to succeed academically.

Comefromaway · 19/10/2021 13:58

@Parker231

GreenLakes - as both DT’s got all A’s at GCSE and A levels and 1st in their degrees, I think I prefer the approach we used. We wanted well rounded children and not hot housed children without any enjoyment in their school days. I would worry about children’s mental health with such pressure put on them to succeed academically.
Similarly my dd got all Grade 8 and 9's at GCSE and A/A* at A level.

All whilst dancing 2 hours a night Monday -Friday and 3 hours at weekends too.

Some academically selective schools may be able to filter out children who are not capable of this level of study. For the majority of children, especially those with autism like my dd and ds (but also others) it will just learn to burnout and will actually mean they get weaker exam results than they might have otherwise done.

generaljake · 19/10/2021 14:04

@stuckdownahole - I haven't had time to read the whole thread but I think I agree with you, but only up to a point. I think that our own personal decisions are material to our political beliefs and vice versa. I think this is about principles and we have reached a strange place in our politics and society where individual principles and morals are somehow seen as irrelevant to public office and detached. I think that is massively problematic for all sorts of reasons. See though: Boris Johnson.

The trouble with private education is that people will always find a way to justify something for their own child which is fundamentally unjust and unfair, and which damages the prospects of others. A commitment to private education is in fact a dereliction of the common good. Someone else said we should make state schools as 'good' as private schools but even if that were possible it is missing the fundamental point - education and all the cultural resources that come with it are not that valuable in absolute terms, they only matter in relative terms - in simple terms, it doesn't really matter what you know, just that you know more of it than the people you are competing against. But this isn't just about knowledge. You could level-up state and private schools (though that's not happening and is unlikely to do so) but people at the top of society would find other ways to keep these rewards to themselves, by changing the rules (around what is seen as valuable and why). As just one example, when more people started going to uni, the professions did become more open, so to manage this, it suddenly became important to demonstrate all sorts of other sporting accomplishments and leisure interests, which are often expensive and largely available to the middle-class (and especially at private schools). There is nothing about these interests that make people better at professional jobs, they are completely arbitrary. But making them important (changing the rules) restricted entry once more to more privileged people in ways which seemed fair (but were not).

Other posters who have wondered about how social mobility works have to remember that a political commitment to social mobility is not about making people the same - it is about legitimating extreme hierarchies of income, status and wealth. In other words, if you have a great deal of money you can make this seem acceptable by claiming that similar rewards are available to anybody on the basis of talent, hard work and skill. That is the basis of the merit principle which has never been realised in the UK - in fact we are miles away from it. So it works as a useful myth.

Basically, the very foundations of social mobility are political and they are located on the right. On average, people whose politics are towards the left are much more interested in inequality which is about reducing hierarchies and making sure that everybody can enjoy dignity and respect.

Inequality and social mobility are not oppositional though - social mobility is more likely in more equal societies, but the current government appears to have lost sight of that fact. Smile

PasstheBucket89 · 21/10/2021 09:10

I think a great way of explaining social mobility is you can't guarantee where people will end up,

but you can ensure they all start the race with the same opportunities.

OP posts:
2Two · 22/10/2021 07:59

There are so much better ways of dealing with behavioural issues in schools than the ones espoused by Birbalsingh.
www.theguardian.com/education/2020/oct/10/is-the-tide-turning-against-zero-tolerance-in-uk-schools

sammyvine · 23/10/2021 15:40

@pianolessons1

Her son is at St. Paul's. She doesn't exactly walk the walk of improving social mobility in her own family.........
How do you know her son is at St Pauls? She is entitled to send her kids where she wants but it does say a lot/
leccybill · 23/10/2021 18:40

I'm pretty sure she has replied to a few tweets saying "I'm not a parent but.. "

sammyvine · 23/10/2021 19:00

@leccybill

I'm pretty sure she has replied to a few tweets saying "I'm not a parent but.. "
Maybe she is lying? Why i have no idea

I have seen it a few times on social media that she has a son at private school.

JoanOgden · 23/10/2021 19:08

@leccybill

I'm pretty sure she has replied to a few tweets saying "I'm not a parent but.. "
Can you link to any of them?
sammyvine · 23/10/2021 22:47

I am surprised how popular/respected Birbalsingh is. Like some have said there are many headteachers in the UK that are leading successful schools with good behaviour from most students in deprived areas/have high numbers of kids on free school meals.

Central Foundation Boys School in Islington for example has 75% of students on pupil premium and 80% of students are from ethnic minority background yet the school's results/behaviour has dramatically improved in recent years under the headteacher and in 2015 it was rated outstanding by Ofsted in all areas. Where is the medal for Jamie Brownhill the headteacher?

One thing I must say is that I am also surprised how open with her views she is especially as an educator. I don't have a problem with people that are Conservative but she often tweets controversial things similar to what media shock jocks do and appears on almost only right wing tv and radio shows like TalkRadio, Spiked and GB News. Whilst there is nothing wrong with that as she is entitled to her opinions and political views, I have never seen a headteacher do this before. Most teachers try to remain neutral in general and not appear constantly on right wing tv/radio shows/podcasts. How does she even have time to do all this?

I would feel very uncomfortable to send my child to a school where the headteacher says 'if a child accuses a teacher of racism 100% back the teacher'. I mean that is pretty scary to me and says a lot about the person she is. I am really surprised that the school is lauded and highly rated. Maybe because it's a free school, nobody cares but I would never send my child to a school like that.

sammyvine · 24/10/2021 01:39

@VladmirsPoutine

She also once said that if a child accuses a teacher of racism 100% back the teacher. Her views are so regressive to the point I have wondered if she's playing a very long ruse to see how far she can take it.
I actually think you are 100% correct. I think it was all in her plan from years ago - to be this super strict headteacher and pretty much become famous for it. She does loads of media tours/speeches interviews with right leaning publications that i don't any other headteacher doing. There are loads of schools in deprived areas where most of the pupils are on pupil premium but despite this they still get great results and have a good reputation yet we only hear about her and her school.

I can remember when Katherine Birbalsingh came to fame during the Lib Dem/Tory coalition. She made the headlines after giving a 'famous speech' during the Tory conference where she hammered the last labour government in regards to their views on education and their policies despite Labour record spending in education when they were in power. She got a standing ovation from all the Tory MPs and made the headlines. She was a teacher at the time in an inner city school and I remember reading that she lost her job after the speech as according to her, many teachers nationwide were upset at her speech and I think they found her to be siding with the Tories for her own personal gain (her dream was to open a free school and remember the tories implemented free schools) rather than actually stating the truth about the education system. She then went on this media tour about losing her job complaining that 'the lefty/labour leaning teaching force' pretty much cancelled her because she sided with the Tories and according to her most teachers tend to hate the Tories.

So hear we are today where she has her own school, will open more schools and has pretty much become one of the most recognised teachers in the UK!

sammyvine · 24/10/2021 01:53

@ChloeDecker

I think she’s great. She’s massively improved her school.

Not sure what you mean by this as she had no school to improve. As in, she didn’t take over a failing school, or any such school.
Her school is a free school that she has seen from the first Year of 7s through only once. She only has one year of non Covid related results to go from at GCSE level and no non-Covid related sets of results at A Level.

However, she is a Headteacher who oversees a clear ethos of her school and follows through. She has sent some disadvantaged pupils off to good universities in the last year, so has had some success.

I have visited her school and it must be pointed out that they do not have a wide range of subjects offered - it is limited, possibly due to ensuring that their pupils have less to learn, so do better in the subjects that they do do. I’m sure this was also mention in her Tiger book she released.

Personally, I have no idea where she gets the time to run a school, spend so much time on Twitter and giving almost daily interviews in the media/podcasts etc. AND take on this new social mobility role, as well as parent, it seems.
Something has got to give surely!?

This is what I don't get

I have never seen a headteacher get as much air time and give as much interviews as she does. I mean the Brampton Manor Headteacher has seen many kids, I think even more than Eton gain places at Oxbridge and i don't see him everywhere giving interviews/podcasts etc...
Something is not right here.

knitnerd90 · 24/10/2021 06:17

I simply don't see how a child with, say, ASD/ADHD could cope with the rules in Michaela's behaviour policy. It seems designed to weed out certain SENs.

It's one thing to say "she's providing it for those who want it" but she can't claim her methods are at all generalisable.

2Two · 24/10/2021 10:49

Last year Birbalsingh was absolutely raging at the suggestion that pupils should be allowed to wear masks in class, let alone that they should be made to. Her reasoning was all around discipline - if teachers can't see pupils' faces properly they won't be able to see if the pupils are muttering to each other or being rude about the teacher. It was an interesting insight into how insecure her discipline methods really are; if the school really has an effective handle on discipline this would never have crossed her mind.

JoanOgden · 24/10/2021 12:37

@knitnerd90

I simply don't see how a child with, say, ASD/ADHD could cope with the rules in Michaela's behaviour policy. It seems designed to weed out certain SENs.

It's one thing to say "she's providing it for those who want it" but she can't claim her methods are at all generalisable.

Michaela say that their strict, no exceptions behaviour policy actually works really well for many pupils with ASD who like clear structured rules.
Essexmum321 · 24/10/2021 18:33

And Ofsted say that Michaela have the state average numbers of children with SEN

knitnerd90 · 24/10/2021 18:58

I have 2 kids with ASD and 2 with ADHD (1 has both). Yes, I can see how they would like the structure, but the rules about eye contact, no fidgeting, 3 hours of homework--these would be deal breakers.

Nayday · 24/10/2021 19:00

The Sen policy will suit some but not all. Its very clearly laid out on their website. Having read it my son would not do well here, others may. The required eye contact etc - would be interesting to see if that applies to pupils with ASC.

Some children will do well in the environment of Michaela, others very much will not. The Google reviews of the school are interesting. Visitors rave about it. But parent and pupil reviews are littered with negative references to mental health and the methods used at the school.

The methods used at this particular school are very appealing to a particular type of voter, conservative values etc, a throwback to the "good old days" of discipline. However they're not scalable. Kids with or without Sen needs that can't be met by this school - are at a different school.

Its really worth noting how the tone & language used is so different in comparison to private school copy. Its all very "disciplinarian". Tradition is used on each line of the first 3 sentences. Followed by "We don't make excuses". Contrast this to Eton " A vibrant and progressive school...committed to independent thought".
Michaela is distinctly (and arguably deliberately) Victorian in tone.

Be interesting to see if this is a populist appointment, or a genuine drive for social mobility. I so wish it were the latter, but everything about it and the rhetoric used indicates not.

JoanOgden · 24/10/2021 19:38

"Be interesting to see if this is a populist appointment, or a genuine drive for social mobility. I so wish it were the latter, but everything about it and the rhetoric used indicates not."

Perhaps I am being cynical, but I suspect that what the government wants to see is a small number of bright young people from BAME/disadvantaged backgrounds being successful, while the overall structure of society remains unchanged. This is exactly what Katharine Birbalsingh can offer.

sammyvine · 24/10/2021 19:55

@Nayday

The Sen policy will suit some but not all. Its very clearly laid out on their website. Having read it my son would not do well here, others may. The required eye contact etc - would be interesting to see if that applies to pupils with ASC.

Some children will do well in the environment of Michaela, others very much will not. The Google reviews of the school are interesting. Visitors rave about it. But parent and pupil reviews are littered with negative references to mental health and the methods used at the school.

The methods used at this particular school are very appealing to a particular type of voter, conservative values etc, a throwback to the "good old days" of discipline. However they're not scalable. Kids with or without Sen needs that can't be met by this school - are at a different school.

Its really worth noting how the tone & language used is so different in comparison to private school copy. Its all very "disciplinarian". Tradition is used on each line of the first 3 sentences. Followed by "We don't make excuses". Contrast this to Eton " A vibrant and progressive school...committed to independent thought".
Michaela is distinctly (and arguably deliberately) Victorian in tone.

Be interesting to see if this is a populist appointment, or a genuine drive for social mobility. I so wish it were the latter, but everything about it and the rhetoric used indicates not.

There are loads of school in inner cities such as London with a lot of children from challenging backgrounds that good as good results as Katharine Birbalsingh's school. I don't know what makes her school so special. If anything she had it easier since her school was brand new so she could build it from scratch rather than having to into a historically bad school with issues and turn it around.
Ceto · 25/10/2021 00:04

@Essexmum321

And Ofsted say that Michaela have the state average numbers of children with SEN
But I believe less than the average number of EHCPs?