To be so frustrated at single jab policy

[lateforschool]

No other country that has authorised the vaccine for 12 - 16 year olds has decided to only half vaccinate them (one jab).

There is no date for these kids to get the second shot of vaccine - it’s not even sure that they ever will.

And as a result of this half arsed policy, half vaccinated English kids won’t be able to travel to large swathes of Europe or the US without quarantining and then having regular Covid tests every two days if they want to get on a bus or sit in a cafe.

These same European countries take proof of a positive Covid test as equivalent to a vaccine and yet because of being slightly vaccinated UK kids will be far less likely to get Covid (which the government tells us in normally harmless in children) and secure themselves freedom of travel.

I really hesitated to have my kids vaccinated. I did it because we have vulnerable older relatives and friends. but I was sorely tempted just to let them catch it (from one of the 40 positive children in the school last month) just so we could have a bash at spending half term with their dad and sisters in Germans and Italy.

And while maiming about freedom of movement may sound like a luxury - it is a luxury afforded to every fully vaccinated child in Europe - my German sister in law has spent the summer cruising around Italy Spain and France with her fully vaccinated kids.

I do not understand why the UK has a different policy to everywhere else? How is risk being calculated? I certainly don’t believe the UK is wiser or better at calculating medical risk than elsewhere. On what grounds are these decisions being made?

Today there are stories in the press bemoaning the very low take up among kids. But It’s no wonder with all these mixed messages and without the incentive of travel - particularly odd as usually vaccination is encouraged by promising greater freedoms to the vaccinated eg via Covid passports.

AIBU to think this under 16 vax programme is an ill thought out policy ?

And also to wonder why more people aren’t making more of a fuss about it.

@EileenGC

The OP has specified Germany and Italy *@Star81*.

In Germany the kids would have to stay in quarantine for 10 days. And then top up Covid passes.

In Italy, 5 days + release tests. Ditto Covid passes.

Not everyone has family in Spain or goes on holiday to Portugal.

Which makes my point that it is necessary for a whole world approach rather than individual country basis.

@Mojoj

I have no sympathy. Kids shouldn't be getting vaccinated for a virus which will do them no harm.

This.

OP no doubt you've already thought of this but if your children hold nationality of one of those countries can you get them a second dose whilst on a visit? I know European nationals who did this earlier in the year when UK had 12 week gap and most of Europe had 3 weeks gap.

The whole thing is very messy if you ask me with different countries all having different rules on what you need and what you can/can't do if you're not vaccinated. I thought travel would be getting easier by now but it's a bloody nightmare.

@Mojoj

I have no sympathy. Kids shouldn't be getting vaccinated for a virus which will do them no harm.

Apart from that poor 15 year old girl Jorja of course. She died the day she was due the vaccine. But no won't do them any harm.....

@Star81

My comment is not incorrect. Many European countries will let them in with a negative PCR test. I’m in one just now and that’s all we had to do.

You seem very angry at the UK policy but then again not many countries have gone for all having the same policy either which is what makes travelling so difficult. All countries have done what they think is right for them. Even if the government hadn’t gone with vaccinating 12 and above - against the JCVI recommendation- we would still be in the same position.

Many European countries will. But a huge number won’t A including Italy and Germany where I have family - and it is likely to be the case for the US when it opens. Where all my US family live. In New York at the moment anyone who is over 12 has to have a vaccine pass to go into restaurants and museums. But we can’t show that - because we don’t have one. Americans who come here aged 12-18 don’t have the same restrictions. There is also a difference between deciding not to vaccinate at all (which some countries have done), and having an incomplete vaccination (which only the UK has decided to do based on what, I do not know).

I’m re not really ‘this’ though, is it. The point is irritation at an I’ll thought out and inconsistent vaccination policy. Not about whether vaccines in general rare right or wrong (though I would have though if you are going to do it probably best to do it properly)

It would be easier if the children were given the second vaccine as then they would have the same rules applied to them as parents (also if we were in the EU where freedom of movement persists).

But they wouldn't be able to go this half term anyway given they wouldn't get a second jab, if it were made available, for 12 weeks. The earliest they'd be able to go is Feb half term. By then the groups that are now receiving top ups will be done so likely more vaccine then available for a second.

I thought the point was to enable them and other kids to stay in school.

Plus is gives the anti vac protesters that have picketed schools in our town and posted their Nuremberg trial leaflets everywhere a second shot at scaring the kids to death.

Can’t they get their second jab in Germany or Italy?

1. It’s true, they couldn’t go now. But if they had the vaccine today (two weeks) we could go for Christmas. And at present there are No plans to vaccinate 12-15 year olds. The government has not even said if they will be given a second vaccine. It’s not like being told you have to wait two months - it might never happen. How are people meant to plan in this situation. I’m not the only person on this situation. There are many people who have family abroad who will find it difficult to travel because of this.

Also the government wants to open up and is simplifying the red and green list to bring things back to normal and encourage travel, but it has a policy - which it hasn’t explained.- which is blocking travel. The point is partly fo disruption in schools and partyly to spread transmission to the more vulnerable (people over 50, grandparents, the unvaccinated). Maybe to protect the kids although the message from government is a bit unclear on this. And there will obviously be less disruption if the kids are better protected or double vaccinated I don’t think you’re really saying single shots are a good idea because otherwise it will encourage anti- vaxxers to have a second round of scaring kids! Better to find a way to stop the anti vaxxers from terrorising kids!

If I had the good fortune to have EU citizen children, yes

I completely agree, we were wanting to go to Poland in December, only my 16 yr old will be double jabbed, the 14, 13, and 12 yr old won't be, they would need to quarentine so we can't go 😒

So if your child had two jabs and ended up with an enlarged heart then that’s ok as you can go on holiday?
That’s the reason they’re being given 1 jab as the risk assessment says it’s safer for kids this way.

On a really practical note, needing two jabs for a holiday would push many 12-16 into getting both jabs!

I agree completely with you OP, countries like Germany and Italy are still restricted, and my friends who live in Dubai can't believe our kids have only just been offered the jab, they have had it for most of the year and been traveling/living a more normal life with no severe lockdowns as well.

Really surprised people are defending this, perhaps it's like when they say the NHS is the best in the world, they simply don't know they are doing it better elsewhere!

As I understand it the heart risk of getting covid is worse than the risk of the jab, no?

@ConstanceGracy

So if your child had two jabs and ended up with an enlarged heart then that’s ok as you can go on holiday? That’s the reason they’re being given 1 jab as the risk assessment says it’s safer for kids this way.

Actually, the proper risk assessment (by the JCVI) said that they shouldn’t be having it at all, on the basis that the cost benefit analysis doesn’t stack up.

It is the government which has chosen to drag a political choice (closing of schools) into what should be a purely medical analysis.

My kids aren't rushing to get jabbed though, as they've all had covid recently due to the lack of jabs earlier in the year. At least they have some natural immunity now!

I think that governments need to confirm whether the definition of fully vaccinated has changed now that the booster programme has started. I'm under 50 and double jabbed and at the moment won't be offered a third. Will that mean I'm partially vaccinated?

I opened this thread expecting to sympathise on the risks to both the vulnerable community and children themselves from Covid.
But no you just want to visit family without a minor inconvenience. People are dying in poorer countries due to lack of vaccines. Your kids getting PCR’s and quarantining is at the very bottom of the priory list.

*priority

that’s irrelevant - unless the second vaccines are going to countries that don’t have them - which isn’t the case.
And I don’t think not being able to visit close family is a minor inconvenience.

@SheikhMaraca
The JCVI, a preliminary advisory body made up of non medical experts as well as medics, decided that although the benefits outweighed the risks, solely medically speaking, it wasn't necessary to vaccinate children
The next body to look at the data, the CMO (made up of only medical experts) overruled.
Given the latest unedifying news about certain JCVI members retweeting Us4Them and having links with the Hart group and anti Vax groups, I'd say it's a good job the CMO was the ultimate deciding body.

When my dd1 (just turned 13) had her Covid jab at school recently, she was told she would be offered the 2nd jab in the spring!

@lateforschool

that’s irrelevant - unless the second vaccines are going to countries that don’t have them - which isn’t the case. And I don’t think not being able to visit close family is a minor inconvenience.

Agreed

@ConstanceGracy

So if your child had two jabs and ended up with an enlarged heart then that’s ok as you can go on holiday? That’s the reason they’re being given 1 jab as the risk assessment says it’s safer for kids this way.

True, double-jabbed European kids are dropping like flies and suffering from enlarged hearts 🙄

Funny how the UK risk assessment is the only one that’s deemed 1 jab to be the solution.