To ask if you knew that in the UK anyone can call themselves a nurse?

[BoreOfWhabylon]

Anyone can use the title to offer professional advice and services even if they have no professional qualification, experience or have been struck off a professional register.
To protect the public, the title should be restricted to those who are registered with professional regulators such as Registered Nurses and Dental Nurses. This would be the same as titles such as paramedic, physiotherapist and hearing aid dispenser which are limited to those on the professional registers.

If you think, as I do, that this is wrong, please pop over to the Petitions Board, where @Arbella2 has a thread with more information and links to the petition.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/a4368136-protect-the-title-nurse-in-uk-law-petition-the-title-nurse-can-be-used-by-anyone-in-the-uk-petition-created-by-professor-alison-leary-rn?msgid=111544580#111544580

That’s very different, the reason this is happening is that there is a growing realisation that many posts which were historically earmarked for nurses actually don’t need to be nurses and in some cases are more appropriately filled by other professions.

@XenoBitch

I thought 'registered nurse' was a protected title, but 'nurse' is not.

I have also always been aware of that being the situation. "Registered" being the key word.

Its a problem across HCPs generally, for example 'psychologist' isn't a protected title either

Yes it's the same for veterinary nurses. Anyone can call themselves one but you have to be qualified and registered with the RCVS to be an RVN (registered veterinary nurse). So next time you're at the vets you might want to ask if it's an RVN who'll be monitoring your pet's anaesthetic or an unqualified lay person calling theirselves a vet nurse (many vets will use unqualified staff to save money on wages).

Veterinary nurse is also not a protected title. There are VNs (unregistered, possibly no formal training) and RVNs (registered, formal training, need for yearly professional development)
It's ridiculous that these aren't protected titles.

I think the same thing happens in other professions too. Teaching assistants who introduce themselves as teachers. I have nothing against TAs - many of them do an amazing job for very poor pay - but they are not teachers. I have a relative with no qualifications at all. She is a TA but everyone thinks she is a teacher because that is what she tells them.

I also know someone who works as a home tutor who calls himself a teacher. He isn't. He has never done teacher training, he does not have QTS.

I do realise this is not on the same scale as someone over exaggerating their medical credentials.

The trouble is there aren't enough registered nurses so they are having to recruit AHPs and nursing associates. They may be very good though, I don't want to jump to conclusions. Physios have better anatomy and physiology knowledge than RNs receive in their training for example. Nursing associates still get training. It doesn't mean they aren't excellent in what they do. It's only in recent years that the RN role became degree only. Having an RN title doesn't make a person a good nurse. I have worked with an OT or physio (cant remember which) who was in a nursing management role and whilst there was definitely a lack of understanding of things like the dashboards/ paperwork/ risk assessments etc, these could be learnt and didn't detract from them being a good manager.

I've heard nursery nurses and healthcare assistants refer to themselves as nurses but they aren't dishing out medical advice.

I'm an ACP, so I am a nurse but I sit on a medical rota (lots of extra studying during an intense three year training program to achieve this). We now take on physios into this role too. More and more staff are taking on extended roles or blurring the lines between different disciplines. ACPs are a well established work force and have been very successful and well received by the medical profession. However initially there was backlash and concern like this but we have since proved ourselves to be a valuable work force.
I'd rather have extra nursing associates on the ward than no staff. We really need more doctors and registered nurses but there are multiple reasons why we are short on them and that's a whole other thread.

BMJ article
The Healthcare Quality and Safety Conference October 2021
"A bedside care workforce with a greater proportion of professional nurses is associated with better outcomes for patients and nurses. Reducing nursing skill mix by adding nursing associates and
other categories of assistive personnel without professional nurse qualifications may contribute to preventable deaths, erode quality and safety of hospital care and contribute to hospital nurse shortages"
https://qualitysafety.bmj.com/content/26/7/559

I thought it was like accountancy, where anyone can call themselves an accountant, but only people with recognised qualifications can call themselves a chartered accountant. Same in most professions.

Nurse is too generic a term to protect. A breastfeeding mother can nurse her baby, someone be a nurse in caring for their elderly mum etc, there are nursery nurses etc.

This is why the term "registered nurse" or RN exists - it defines nurses of a specific minimum qualification.

@Jurassicparkinajug

The trouble is there aren't enough registered nurses so they are having to recruit AHPs and nursing associates. They may be very good though, I don't want to jump to conclusions. Physios have better anatomy and physiology knowledge than RNs receive in their training for example. Nursing associates still get training. It doesn't mean they aren't excellent in what they do. It's only in recent years that the RN role became degree only. Having an RN title doesn't make a person a good nurse. I have worked with an OT or physio (cant remember which) who was in a nursing management role and whilst there was definitely a lack of understanding of things like the dashboards/ paperwork/ risk assessments etc, these could be learnt and didn't detract from them being a good manager.

I've heard nursery nurses and healthcare assistants refer to themselves as nurses but they aren't dishing out medical advice.

I'm an ACP, so I am a nurse but I sit on a medical rota (lots of extra studying during an intense three year training program to achieve this). We now take on physios into this role too. More and more staff are taking on extended roles or blurring the lines between different disciplines. ACPs are a well established work force and have been very successful and well received by the medical profession. However initially there was backlash and concern like this but we have since proved ourselves to be a valuable work force.
I'd rather have extra nursing associates on the ward than no staff. We really need more doctors and registered nurses but there are multiple reasons why we are short on them and that's a whole other thread.

Nursing associate, s do two years training though dont they? A friend of mine has just qualified as one, she can administer medication etc When i qualified as a nurse in the mid 90,s enrolled nurses were being phased out many were doing a to up course to become a registered nurse, yet here we are 25 years later with nursing associates, doing a similar role to enrolled nurses..

And to continue my comparisons to teaching....

Many schools now allocate TAs and HTLAs to teach whole classes. They do the work of teachers without the qualifications or the pay. It saves some schools a lot of money. They will often claim it is because they can't recruit qualified teachers, but it's nonsense. It is all done to save money because budgets are so tight. Many parents do not realise that their children are being taught by unqualified teachers.

It is a slippery slope in any profession.

@Bearfrills we must live near each other. He’s a cock isn’t he?

@amillionmenonmars

And to continue my comparisons to teaching....

Many schools now allocate TAs and HTLAs to teach whole classes. They do the work of teachers without the qualifications or the pay. It saves some schools a lot of money. They will often claim it is because they can't recruit qualified teachers, but it's nonsense. It is all done to save money because budgets are so tight. Many parents do not realise that their children are being taught by unqualified teachers.

It is a slippery slope in any profession.

Yes, this. One of my DC's class has been mainly "taught" this year by a teaching assistant with no qualifications at all while they are looking to recruit a teacher.

On the nurse topic, I heard only overseas qualified nurses calling themselves "nurses". I don't think there's a massive potential for fraud, and it would be weird to ringfence a very common word of a language anyway (as opposed to a title).

@GrealishHairband he loves himself a good photo op though, send him a copy of the petition and I'm sure he'll post a photo of himself with it

Not that I can see it, I'm banned from his FB page for asking him what his reasoning was for voting against extended free school meals provision during the pandemic when there are over 7000 children in his constituency who would directly benefit from it.

@Bearfrills haha me too! But it was questioning why he was on every picture of the ‘new investment’ when it was actually happening in a nearby Labour led constituency 👀

Utter tosspot.

His employee is a local councillor near me, doesn’t even live in the area and actively works against the rest of the parish council (mainly Labour) because there's absolutely no conflict of interest there

Example of claiming to be a nurse. Not illegal to do so.

Had this person claimed to be a hearing aid dispenser that would have been against the law.

https://nursingnotes.co.uk/news/politics/newly-elected-mp-falsely-claims-mental-health-nurse/

That's our illustrious local MP...

12/10/21
The nurse title should be protected in UK law so only registered nurses can use it, says Jonathan Ashworth Shadow Health and Social Care Secretary, speaking today at the QNI conference.

https://www.nursinginpractice.com/latest-news/protect-nurse-title-in-law-says-jonathan-ashworth/

@WhiskyXray

How would protecting the name actually change recruitment practices, though?

And if they are so terribly understaffed, is another willing pair of hands such a bad thing? People used to learn nursing on the job. My posh grandmother was suddenly a nurse in WWI, etc etc.

Do you really think nursing is the same as it was in WW1?

It's not the only "unprotected" profession. There are others such as accountancy in that literally anyone can call themselves an accountant and can set up an accountancy practice, regardless of whether they have qualifications/experience or not. It's a bit of a lottery really as to which professions are protected and which aren't.

@ineedsun

That’s very different, the reason this is happening is that there is a growing realisation that many posts which were historically earmarked for nurses actually don’t need to be nurses and in some cases are more appropriately filled by other professions.

Absolutely agree - for example a modern matron is essentially a management role. So there is no reason why another registered healthcare professional couldn't do it with the right skills and aptitude. The Allied Health Professions Council and the HCPC are doing a lot of work on extending roles that traditionally nurses occupied.

I do believe in educating the public on what roles involve though, but for those professionals not registered with a governing body there is often reliance on their integrity. So the physician associate I worked with once who admitted not correcting patients who called him Dr is acting immorally and fraudulently

So people using Dr or Nurse in their title without being registered are misleading their customers.

Nursing assistants, physicians associates teaching assistants and Drs of philosophy are all valid and necessary roles but the organisation using them should not mislead service users or get labour on the cheap by not hiring appropriately qualified staff.

I always corrected a patient who addressed me as Nurse as I am a radiographer. I rarely got called Dr, though funnily enough my male colleagues often do

I do think Sonographer should be a registered title though.