To complain about this GP?

[complain]

I have name changed because I just want this to stay away from all my other threads as I think this is a controversial post

Please read this because I am just shocked:

Back ground:

I filled out e consult about my sore back (understatement) and I asked for a call back. I needed some pain killers. I am 14 weeks pregnant and I have nerve damage in my back.
I usually use cannabis oil and have injections of steroids, epidural etc. I used to take opiates and I prefer to use cannabis oil, less side effects far more efficient in pain relief. As I am pregnant I can't use the oil. this is fine.
3rd pregnancy, wanted baby. Working family. My back is paid for privately. It costs a bomb but makes life a lot happier

Scenario:

GP phones today and offers co codamol, runs through the fact it's one of the safer ones. I know this, I used it in the last two pregnancies when I had to. I was looking for and happy with this outcome. GP then says to me I should abort all future pregnancies. Have an abortion for any more babies as two is lots and three is too many. I just listened to him said ok and ended the call. I got off the phone and thought wtf how rude but now I think, this is actually massively inappropriate. My body, my choice. I have never had an abortion, never will. Why is three children the point when he felt he should tell me I need to have an abortion in the future.

The question:

Do I make a formal complaint? I laughed to start off with in shock when I told my friend but now I'm disgusted. My husband was disgusted. Another friend was disgusted.

What do I do? AIBU to write to the practise? Presuming all calls are recorded?

Is that exactly what he said or are you paraphrasing?

He said

Have an abortion for future pregnancies because of your back
You should think about aborting next pregnancies if you get pregnant again
Have an abortion for the future if you become pregnant

It was said in at least 3 forms to me and yes used the word abort not terminate not in a round about way literally said these things

They are paraphrases but using his words I can't quote him word for word

Also three children is too many

I'm not doubting how upset you are, but did they actually use those words?

Hi OP,

I'm a GP, and unless there is far more to this story than you have written (i.e. you have some enormous undisclosed risk factor that would make this and all future pregnancies at extremely high risk of serious abnormalities/ a major risk to your safety) then it is completely unacceptable for him to be telling you to have abortions. Even if there was a major risk factor it should be a discussion around risk and options rather than just telling you to abort. I would absolutely advise putting in a complaint about this. I would not however assume calls will be recorded, this is not necessarily done as standard.

Sorry you had such a terrible experience. Congratulations on your pregnancy, I hope everything goes as smoothly as possible for you.

Yes I actually laughed but now I'm thinking that's not professional and actually what if I had had IVF or miscarriages etc he isn't my GP just the GP Who called

I would definitely complain if this happened! How horrible and unprofessional. Congratulations on your pregnancy OP, I hope your back pain improves!

Complain. Please complain. He had no right to speak to you like that.

That’s really awful. He could at most have said “would you like to discuss contraception options, as a fourth pregnancy might be too much for your back?”

Not launch into abortions!

According to my mother, she was told this re abortion about her third - planned - pregnancy back in 1982 though.

It depends, if he reccomended future abortions because he has an opinion on family size thats inappropriate

If he recommended future abortions because of concern for your health, damage to your back etc then that might be a conversation that needed to be had although it sounds like an improved bedside manner would have helped and I would have expected it to be framed from the perspective of contraception rather than abortion

If he said that, then yes I'd raise a concern with the senior partner and/or practice manager.

That’s inappropriate - I would complain I think.

Weird. I would expect him to say something like "pregnancy is not doing your back any good and it's likely to get worse with further pregnancies"
Surely he would talk about contraception before abortion?

That sounds like a gp on the verge of a nervous breakdown. Yes I would report to the practice, use the exact words and just say that you didn't think it was an appropriate thing to say and would appreciate a chat with the practice manager.

@pbdr

Thank you for this, I actually text my husband and said to him "what a peach" but my husband thought it was inappropriate
Its just a faff to write an email in and complain isn't it?

I'm not enormously high risk I'm a 29 year old woman with no social service input, I had a horrid first pregnancy but the second one was fine. He didn't even ask about the pregnancies. I feel that co codamol being a reason for an abortion in the future is BONKERS

Does he not think we know what contraception is? I have a 5 year old a 2 year old and then I am not due until April when I will have an almost 6 and an almost 3 year old it's not like it was 3 children in 2 years or anything intense

I feel like I'm supposed to advocate for other women that he might fancy saying this to, over the phone, when he just looks at the year they were born in and then thinks you're young and dumb? I have been married for 7 years next week! Not sure why I'm using that as my justification it's just well this is a wanted baby coming into a very happy normal and financially super secure, family.

@complain

It is a bit of a faff for you to need to deal with, but he certainly sounds like someone who needs to be challenged on how he is talking to patients.

It would have been entirely appropriate for him to discuss with you the risk of worsening of your back condition related to pregnancy, or indeed the very small theoretical risk to the foetus of regular co-codamol use throughout pregnancy, but simply telling you to have an abortion for this and any future pregnancies is out of order and does not at all respect the fact that this is your (much wanted) pregnancy and your body.

I will probably get flamed but I have ASD and don't understand why this is wrong? When most people on MN seem to be pro-choice. I would think the doctor was just advising because of the impact on your back?

@changed

That's fine, I appreciate you coming up with this as a question because I just thought that he was being matter of fact, though dumb.
Well it's rude because its working on the assumption I don't know about contraception,
Don't want another baby but would get pregnant and have an abortion over using contraception? That's my choice.

I'm also going to get flamed for this but I'm not pro choice 😭 i really find abortions so hard to get my head around in most circumstances 😭 I just wanted to open up to you since you opened up to us.

@pbdr yes you're right, for me taking both paracetamol and codeine are risks I consider to be small in pregnancy (obviously no pain killers are better) but I can't actually do my day without them now it hurts so bloody much and the other more invasive options are not safe in pregnancy hence me choosing this option.

3 was our goal for children and after this I'll have some suitable contraception like we have used inbetween all other children and before having them... I will write a quick note and brush it off because I don't want to make a mountain out of this. It was rude and thoughtless though. He didn't seem to say it in a Youre so dumb tone but it was quite shocking, why couldn't I have four children if I wanted to? My back is controlled as long as i control it with the invasive methods but for 9 months I can grit my teeth to add to my family

Thank you all for the balanced answers, I do have the practise managers email address because ironically I am part of the patient focus group 🙈

I think that’s an odd and unprofessional way to advise you.

If it is his strongly-held, medical opinion that it would be substantially detrimental to your health to have a further pregnancy then he is right to say so but ,surely the correct advice is that you should take appropriately stringent contraceptive precautions to avoid pregnancy?!

If it is so important for your future health that you not endure another pregnancy then you should be advised to come in and discuss that, and ways to prevent it.

I work in a surgery OP and our calls are recorded but I think it depends on the practice. I would email the practice manager. It's fine for a clinican to advise about further pregnancy and your back etc but to be so blunt is extremely unprofessional. It will be interesting to see what he wrote on your consultation and whether he put what he said in your notes.
Congratulations on your pregnancy

@complain I really appreciate your kind explanation, thank you. I often find doctors rude and abrupt but I thought they were allowed to be.