To think DCs sleep should have improved by age 9

[Sleepdeprived42long]

Ok I’m exhausted and feeling a bit sorry for myself so might be a little sensitive. Not really looking for advice just needed to share. Have 2 DSs age 9 and 7. Neither have slept well since babies. DS9 still struggles to get to sleep and doesn’t normally go to sleep until around 9:30pm and wakes up around 6/6:30am. He’s very attached to me/DH/his home and has said he doesn’t want to stay at MILs overnight (my only childcare). DS7 is better at going to sleep and waking but snores loudly all night (which can wake me up in next door room) and will often come through in the middle of the night (at least twice a week). I’m just a bit done. I think I thought that things would be improving by now but often I’m so exhausted during the day. By poor coincidence, I’ve always been someone who needed a lot of sleep and I sleep lightly. Ideally 9 hours per night or I will feel exhausted and grumpy the next day. If I’m woken up during the night, I’m usually awake for 2+ hours. Off to bed now so fingers crossed for a good night…

My DD is 7 and needed us in the room with her up until very recently. She was going to bed at 7 and DD2’s bedtime was a very similar time. DH and I were wasting so much time in the evenings trying to get them both to bed.

We negotiated a later bedtime (8pm) with DD1 in exchange for us sitting in a different room upstairs. She wasn’t thrilled about it and came in to us a few times but she was always sent straight back. She’s now going to bed independently and we can go downstairs.

She also knows that, if she wakes up before a certain time, she has to go back to sleep or at least be in bed. After another set time, she can get up and play quietly in her room. After the final set time, she can get the iPad. We found she was waking up insanely early to get the iPad so we limited it’s use and set controls on it so it wouldn’t turn on.

@IamJuliaJohnson sorry to hear you’re experiencing similar but can’t tell you how much better I feel that it’s not just me! You’re right that people who don’t experience it just don’t really get it I also have to resort to the spare room for a decent night sleep.

When you say your eldest has ASD is the fear of being alone a sign of ASD? A PP has suggested ASD but I’m not sure what we/he would gain from assessment/diagnosis.

My youngest came through at 5am. Settled back to sleep no problem…me on the other hand

9:30-6:30 is 9 hours, which is in line with NHS sleep guidance www.nhs.uk/live-well/sleep-and-tiredness/how-much-sleep-do-kids-need/

The outlier here is yourself - needing more than many adults - but you should be able to get 8.5 to 9 hours if you align with your child's bedtime of 9:30.

And yes you should definitely get the snoring checked: www.childrensrespiratorydoctor.co.uk/snoring.php

Re. ASD or other - it would help if they had a diagnosis as then their education etc., and your own parenting, would be more tailored to them as an individual. You begin the process by speaking to school or the doctor. You can research online.

My 10yo has always had some sleep issues. She's another late to sleep one. I try and get her asleep not long after 9 but if left alone can easily do 10/10.30.

She also goes through phases of bad dreams - so about 3/3.30am she will wake and I have to go and give her a hug.

I also have a child who sleeps poorly btw. Mine still occasionally appears in the night. Being alone feels very lonely in the dark.

Hard to say - ASD usually includes a degree of sensory processing issue. So children with ASD will often display sensory seeking behaviour (my child likes to be touching me when he sleeps, and not just touching but basically pressed right against me), and also sensory sensitivity (often things like loud noises, itchy fabrics, strong flavours). So whilst not all children with sleeping problems have ASD, in an ASD group more children than usual will have sleep issues, same with food fussiness. Eventually you build a picture that shows that the child is just quite sensitive over a wide range of things and there would likely be behavioural elements to this too - eg meltdown/disproportionate response to a sensory input that often coincides with generally high anxiety. This is a huge generalisation because all autistic people are different but those are the kinds of patterns you see.

As for diagnosis - DS was sort of diagnosed accidentally (I wasn’t expecting it to be confirmed) so I didn’t seek diagnosis in the same way other parents did. He presents quite neurotypically in some senses, has good friendships, is engaging and sociable; but lacks social ‘norms’ - he’s probably a bit ‘Sheldon’. Diagnosis for us means that we have a bit more power with school if there is an issue, that we can insist on behaviour strategies that are appropriate (but rarely needed). It’s more of a future proofing thing though, for secondary school, in case he needs it.

Thanks @IamJuliaJohnson that’s really helpful. I wonder if I’ve been putting my head in the sand with this. The sensory things you’ve described-loud noises, itchy fabric and major food fussiness - are all issues for my eldest son. But like yours he seems to be doing fine at school, making friends etc. I totally get what you mean re future proofing though. Thank you x

I have two poor sleepers so I can sympathise! One has ADHD/ possible ASD so that's a factor- nowadays he just struggles to settle but generally manages that on his own. The other is just generally an anxious child, goes through stages of being scared to be left alone, scared of her room, wants to investigate every little sound outside. Waking in the night seems to be happening less and less so that's good, but we can still spend hours trying to get her to sleep at bed time.

The exhaustion is something else. It's so frustrating.

It’s really hard to know. My DS probably wouldn’t have a diagnosis if it weren’t for the fact that he was seeing a speech therapist at the time, was having some (very minor) issues at school (year R), and we had the opportunity to push him through from speech therapy. As far as I was concerned, it was just box ticking - let’s rule that out while we are here because we can. As he has grown his diagnosis has made more sense because he shows more behaviours indicative of an issue, either by not having grown out of some sensory seeking behaviours (thumb sucking) or being more avoidant of loud noises or whatever. The biggest challenge is behaviour though and the diagnosis gives me a different lens. He’s not a badly behaved child, but sometimes he has really big issues with things that should be quite minor. And traditional discipline doesn’t work at that moment because he’s basically not there.

@Sleepdeprived42long

Thanks *@IamJuliaJohnson* that’s really helpful. I wonder if I’ve been putting my head in the sand with this. The sensory things you’ve described-loud noises, itchy fabric and major food fussiness - are all issues for my eldest son. But like yours he seems to be doing fine at school, making friends etc. I totally get what you mean re future proofing though. Thank you x

Definitely think about future pricing. My dd has dyspraxia and really struggles with handwriting. We were borderline for diagnosis but they explained can even help as far ahead as university in getting extra time in exams or a laptop so it's definitely important for those older years.