To go and see my father who I haven't spoken to in 3 years

[sadtonight9]

Posting here for traffic.

My father and I haven't spoken for 3 years now. I've had a very difficult relationship with him, he's abusive and has caused me a lot of psychological issues. He's damaged me in a number of ways, but one of the worst is that he joked for a lot of my childhood about me being fat (I was very slim until puberty, a little chubbier as a teenager - size 14, and only actually got significantly bigger after having my dd at 22). I have had issues my whole teenage and adult life because of this (self-esteem issues, weight issues, an eating disorder etc). The reason we stopped talking is because he joked to my daughter (7 at the time) that she was getting fat. I know him and I understand that he was making a bad 'joke' (please understand that I don't think calling someone fat EVER counts as a joke, but I understand that to my dad it is for whatever fucked up reason) but I felt I absolutely could not allow him to risk giving her the issues I have struggled with for so long. I told him that he had done serious damage to me because of those 'jokes' and I wouldn't let it happen to her and if he ever said it again he'd no longer see her. Rather than accepting responsibility and agreeing, he got v.angry, denied that he'd said it to her (I was literally standing next to her when he did) and denied that he'd ever said it to me when I was young. His blanket refusal to admit the truth and accept responsibility caused me to go nc, and I haven't heard from him since (my stepmum and I have messaged occasionally over the years but I haven't seen her in person). Obviously this in itself is a cause of upset and unanswered questions, lack of closure etc. We all want answers and to understand and I have thought about it often over the years, and written a fair few letters which I have never sent. I'm now pregnant with dd2 (23 weeks) and having a crap time of it with her dad. Stupidly, I chose a man who is similar to my father in ways (not saying horrible things, just massively defensive, unable to accept responsibility, lacking in empathy, temper, withdrawing rather than dealing with conflict). Dp has some really lovely traits and he really isn't a bad person, but he clearly has a lot of issues that make him unable to deal with criticism, negative emotion etc. He's very emotionally immature. I like dps mum but I can definitely see how she has contributed to these issues, and dps parents have a relationship that 'works' in the way I see him behave with me (they will literally not speak for weeks if they row, and won't actually talk through issues, they just eventually pretend nothing happened). I cannot make dp open up to me, or self reflect. Even if he 'goes away and thinks' he just comes back to a conversation still unable to accept responsibility, continuing to be defensive etc. I have tried to be understanding of dps issues when talking to him, but nothing changes and after so long I just can't have that kind understanding anymore. Now I typically withdraw too because I don't believe that anything I say will make a difference. I want to ask my dad why he is the way he is, and what would have helped him to change. I want him to give me the answers and the understanding that dp won't give me (I also want the answers from my dad about himself too). Is that stupid?? Without significant effort and changes I know that my relationship with dp can't go on, but I want to be able to make it work, and I'm pregnant and want to be with my baby's father in a good relationship (of course I know it's better for baby to have us apart if we can't make things work). I feel like I don't know what else to do. I know that dp needs to be the one making all this effort, but I want to know that I did all I could I guess.

I want to ask my dad why he is the way he is, and what would have helped him to change

So you're basically planning on telling him he's a flawed person, expecting him to acknowledge that and to want to have been better if only someone had helped him? Seriously?

It's not going to work. How would you feel if he approached you with the same questions about yourself? You'd be incredibly defensive, as will he be.

This will not end well, such people do not self reflect.

You sound hard work. Self reflection isn't for everyone.Also, it is hard for people to change their nature. You need to find someone you're more compatible with.

Yeah I'm sure I'd feel defensive, but would be open to that conversation if it was handled well. I accept criticism, even though it obviously doesn't feel nice, and I always look at myself to see where I might be going wrong. I mean, I don't intend to walk in and demand that he answer those questions, but they are questions I want to know the answer to (I appreciate that it's likely I never will).

Unfortunately you won't get any answers from your dad, as that would require him to accept he is flawed and reflect on why. If this was possible you would not have gone nc with him. Approaching him now, especially with this, will just open a can of worms.

I thought the reasoning behind this may have been because he was on his deathbed , but unless I missed that in your post , you are not saying that.
So , unless you are wanting a reconnection with him , personally I'd keep away , nothing has changed has it ?

I imagine you're right, and hoping he'll self reflect is naive. I just want things to be okay, and to be able to have relationships with these people that I love but just can't seem to 'work' with.

@Frostine no he's not on his deathbed. Though one day he will be, and I hate to think that we'll never resolve anything. But yes, nothing has changed (or at least, if anything had changed with him I wouldn't know).

If his thoughts about the situation had changed , then he would make the first move ( even a phone call ) to ask about you & DD.

@Frostine of course that's also something I think, but then he's so stubborn that it honestly wouldn't surprise me if he missed us and wanted to see us but just can't bring himself to make the first move and risk the pain of rejection. He and my brother went a year and a half without speaking after they had a fight. They saw eachother once and then a few weeks later my brother died and my dad was devastated. You'd think he wouldn't want to risk losing me without having had a relationship with me for years. But maybe this is also his way of protecting himself from experiencing that kind of pain again?

You are on a hiding to nothing. Your father is the way he is and sadly was not the father you hoped and wished for. Make your peace with that and let it go.
If you can afford it get some therapy so you can explore how all these things sit with you. Its not unusual to chose a partner that has the familiar traits you are used to even if they are not good. Eg, children of alcoholics often then go on to marry alcoholics, it’s familiar see?
Do some work on yourself now while you are going through the process of being at home with small children so you will be in a stronger position when you are ready to go back to work and moving on.

I think you'll end up very burned all over again.

Don't expect an arsehole to change because you ask them to - they'll just turn it around on you.

You'd do better to seek out counselling / therapy for these unresolved issues as you'll never get the answers or apologies from your DF that you think you need.

@PerseverancePays

You are on a hiding to nothing. Your father is the way he is and sadly was not the father you hoped and wished for. Make your peace with that and let it go. If you can afford it get some therapy so you can explore how all these things sit with you. Its not unusual to chose a partner that has the familiar traits you are used to even if they are not good. Eg, children of alcoholics often then go on to marry alcoholics, it’s familiar see? Do some work on yourself now while you are going through the process of being at home with small children so you will be in a stronger position when you are ready to go back to work and moving on.

This is excellent advice - please take it.

You couldn’t change your father and your can’t change your partner. They won’t change because the way they behave works for them.

Your father enjoys putting you down and abusing you. He enjoys the power he has to hurt you. He likes “ putting you in your place “.

That’s your answer and your closure. He does it because he wants to. He could get counselling/ therapy / joint a support group to help him change . He could have done this after your brother died but he didn’t. Because he doesn't want to change - he doesn’t think he’s done
anything wrong.

Your partners sulking works for him . He leaves it a few days to punish you. He never has to face up to his own behaviour and you learn to be more obedient in future.

I know you want to believe in some complicated psychoanalysis which may or may not be true. But what up boils down to is that he’s not going to change because he likes it this way.

You are on a highway to nowhere trying to change these men in your life. It’s hard enough to change yourself, even when you want to and you have therapy / self help groups / whatever. You know this from your own struggles with eating / weight.

Please give all this love / attention / focus / energy/ analysing to yourself and your unborn child instead. You need to be your own project, not them .

Some good advice, thank you. I have had therapy (counselling, cbt and dit) but can't afford private and the nhs courses tend to be pretty short so it's hard to really make much progress with long term issues.

My father sounds like yours just for me it was a big nose. I hate my nose to this day and I barely speak to my father. Can't diagnose him but when I read about people with narcissistic personality disorder, he fits the bill perfectly. Or maybe he's just an ass*e. Either way I grieve the relationship I never had - a supportive and loving dad - and made my peace with it. It's really hard but I do believe speaking to my father would yield nothing. He will never change. I'm so sorry you're in this situation too, it's very hard but sadly some of us do not have nice and supportive parents and there isn't much that can be done. I think you did the right thing protecting your daughter from these comments but that's just my opinion.

I'm glad you have had some good advice here, they're right, you kno they are

He's never going to reach the place that he's self-aware, because then he'll know and have to face up to, all the hideous things he has said and done.

your dad lives happily in the land called denial, he's far from alone, he's got my entire fucking family with him.

Being a decent parent, caring and loving and kind is a very lonely place for some of us.

Please keep going with your journey to a peaceful and happy life, do whatever you can to come to terms with what has happened, that it's not your fault and there is nothing you could have done, nor will ever be able to do to change these people.

Let go. You are not alone, there are lots of us - Check out the Stately Homes threads on Relationships

you need to mourn the dad you wanted but never had. You will need to face up to the fact that if you married someone like him, that relationship may not last, so put into place all that you need to logistically to protect yourself, and when and if the time comes to get yourself out safely and feasibly.

Put the stepping stones in place now, and you will thank yourself later.

I would leave him alone and concentrate on your issues with your current partner. Your Dad is the way he’s because he’s stupid prick and his upbringing contributed to this a lot, he has his own issues but clearly not going to work on them.
So now you’ve got your answer and can carry on with your life. Hope it saves you time and energy.

Thank you very much for your replies. I regularly think that there won't be any change etc, but I feel like there's still this small kernel of hope in me and I find it hard to accept that I'll never get the answers I'm seeking. I've tried to grieve the loss but for some reason I just haven't been able to let it go completely. I'm fine not seeing him and we were fairly low contact for years before nc, I just have so many issues as a result of the relationship with him and I guess I want the answers to try and move past it all and maybe help me heal the damage it's done to me. And a part of me wonders whether if I get the answers from him it will help me know how to make things better with dp (because of their similarities in communication style). But you're right I think, and that was a long shot anyway.

@greenlynx

I would leave him alone and concentrate on your issues with your current partner. Your Dad is the way he’s because he’s stupid prick and his upbringing contributed to this a lot, he has his own issues but clearly not going to work on them. So now you’ve got your answer and can carry on with your life. Hope it saves you time and energy.

Sadly @greenlynx I fear it will be the same with dp, that he's just unwilling to work on his issues and, as others have said, will continue being the way he is because in his mind that works for him (I don't see how he thinks it works but he must do, or at least just thinks he's unable to change anything).

@meadow89 thank you, I'm sorry you've also had to go through this (and all those who have been damaged by their parents). As women we are so influenced by what society tell us is beautiful, it's such a terrible shame when those who are supposed to love us and help build our self esteem also makes us feel that we aren't beautiful.

Nope. Don't ask him. I can see you are struggling with not having 'closure' but there is no closure. He wasn't a v nice father to you, your partner isn't very nice in many ways or so it sounds. You would do better to focus on moving past the shadow of rejection from your father and finding a partner who treats you well and is a nice guy who's able to communicate like an adult.