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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU or is my boss

31 replies

strandedexpat · 07/10/2021 07:22

Not sure if I am being overly emotional about this and therefore not thinking straight but I am just wondering if I am expecting to much or if my boss is being unnecessarily cruel.
I am an expat/immigrant whatever you want to call it and I haven't been home or seen any family members in over 2 years due to covid. I am in a red list country although I am fully vaccinated.
My dad has kindly offered to pay the costs of hotel quarantine so I can come home for Christmas. I had asked my boss if I can work from the hotel for 2 weeks and then take 2 weeks leave he has refused to allow this. However for the past 18 months I have worked 99% from home, I go to the office or to an in person client meeting maybe 1 or 2 days a month at most. December is our quietest month as the culture here is a lot of people travel to their rural family homes for a large part of the month. The time difference is minimal and I have said I am more than happy to be up and online 6am uk time which is regular 9am start time here. His reasoning is that something may occur which requires me to come into the office last minute this does sometimes happen but as I say its usually 1 or 2 days a month at most and there is nothing I would need to do that someone else couldn't do on my behalf or couldn't be 99% resolved remotely. I have taken absolutely minimal leave over the last 2 years, my WFH performance has always been praised and my boss is admittedly usually a reasonable man.
AIBU in expecting my boss to allow this?

OP posts:

CRbear · 07/10/2021 07:26

Annoying as it is- I think it is a big ask. What if the wifi isn’t good enough to work? What if you contract covid and can’t come home as planned? There is a difference working at home, presumably with screens/chair/stands etc. To a laptop on a table with a hotel chair. I know he didn’t mention those things but I think even though it would be nice for bosses to allow this, I don’t think it makes them cruel not to.

rookiemere · 07/10/2021 07:27

Is the hotel quarantine in the UK or abroad? If abroad he may not legally be allowed to let you work there - in our organisation we're not allowed to work outside of UK for tax reasons I believe.

CRbear · 07/10/2021 07:27

I do really feel for you though and think it’s understandable you feel sorry for yourself about it if that makes any difference. I’d hate to be in your position separated from family for so long!

Augusta1 · 07/10/2021 07:27

Can you take 2 weeks unpaid leave instead of the 2 weeks working from tne hotel?

rookiemere · 07/10/2021 07:30

If you have taken minimal leave over the past couple of years can you take more as holiday?

Dontforgetyourbrolly · 07/10/2021 07:30

I don't think your boss is being kind but tbf it's not his job to be kind it's his job to do what's best for the business , however harsh that sounds
If you feel that strongly hand in your notice, see what he does but be prepared for it to back fire
At least you'll see your family which I think is very important

Original poster

strandedexpat · 07/10/2021 07:31

Those are good points although, if I contracted covid I would be on unpaid sick leave the same as if I contracted covid here so I don't see what difference that would make. I don't have a screen,chair,stand etc. at home I have spent the last 18 months working at a dining table or on the sofa and considering I am in a developing country I would bet a lot of money on the hotel wifi / data signal being better than it is here.

The tax reasons are fair enough but as far as i'm aware there is no reason why I could not work remotely in the UK for 2 weeks. If there was I would expect him to tell me this instead of a wishy washy oh be we might need to call you in.

OP posts:

suspiria777 · 07/10/2021 07:33

You're not unreasonable to want this, or to think your boss is being unfair (or even cruel).
But neither of those things will help you get what you want. It would be really helpful, if you return to your boss with this request again, to make a real effort to understand his reasons for refusing. Then you will have a better chance of allaying whatever his worries are about your absence or the plan you wanted to enact. Then, discuss with him how you can mitigate whatever those concerns are.

Approach it with a "is there anything we can do to make this work?" attitude rather than a "this is what i want and you are unfair to refuse me" attitude.

Original poster

strandedexpat · 07/10/2021 07:33

@Augusta1 @rookiemere the intricacies of my contract mean I get no paid leave at all which is why i've taken minimal over the last 2 years. No point not getting paid when I can't do anything fun. If I was to use leave for the entire 4 weeks that would be a months wages lost which I really can't afford. This is why I asked if I could work the first 2 weeks.

OP posts:

BycullahRoad · 07/10/2021 07:38

My father used to employ workers from overseas. He would always say that if you employed such workers, then you had to expect them to want to go home once a year, and that as a responsible employer he should a) allow them to use all their holiday in one go, and b) make alternative arrangements to get the work done during their absence. Above all, it shows that you value employees and thereby encourages employee loyalty.

TabbyStar · 07/10/2021 07:43

I guess he's within his rights to do so, but it does seem mean and isn't really going to encourage employee retention. Are there other similar jobs around if you left this one so that you could travel back?

Brefugee · 07/10/2021 07:55

I would ask your boss for another meeting and try your best to make your case, without emotion, about how you can handle things and what would happen if you were needed in the office. Do you have a backup plan? have you checked with anyone if they can do it? and you need a backup plan for your backup plan.

basically you have to make a watertight business case.

If he still says "nope, can't do without you" time to renegotiate your pay and so on - you are obviously valuable to him. Any chance you can look for another job that pays more? Basically, negotiate for what you think you're worth to the company.

rookiemere · 07/10/2021 08:13

I think the pandemic and responses have thrown up working dilemmas that would never have occurred prior to the pandemic.

I feel for you, but I can sort of understand where your boss is coming from. I don't think it's fair to call him cruel if he's normally decent and you need to take the emotion out of it. Could you try a compromise- one week paid whilst you're in quarantine rather than two ? If not I would bite the bullet and have a very quiet month in January and/or ask your DF if he can give you a loan until your next salary comes in.

Lightswitch123 · 07/10/2021 08:16

@rookiemere

Is the hotel quarantine in the UK or abroad? If abroad he may not legally be allowed to let you work there - in our organisation we're not allowed to work outside of UK for tax reasons I believe.

This. There are a lot of tax and legal implications. Perhaps you can take unpaid leave? Or visit your family for a shorter time. Sadly a lot of people in similar situations due to covid restrictions, I don't think your boss is being unreasonable

PigeonLittle · 07/10/2021 08:18

[quote strandedexpat]**@Augusta1* @rookiemere* the intricacies of my contract mean I get no paid leave at all which is why i've taken minimal over the last 2 years. No point not getting paid when I can't do anything fun. If I was to use leave for the entire 4 weeks that would be a months wages lost which I really can't afford. This is why I asked if I could work the first 2 weeks.[/quote]
I'd contact ACAS. Have you been there over 2 years? And you work full time without employee benefits?

I think your boss would be wise to let you work over Christmas before you dip into that minefield.

marykitty · 07/10/2021 08:20

Is the quarantine 2 weeks before or after your vacation?

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 07/10/2021 08:21

I dont think the tax implications kick in for a 2 weeks stint abroad

marykitty · 07/10/2021 08:21

Oh wait, I saw you write before in your OP, sorry.

What I can tell you is that my DH manages a team and he cannot allow this per company policies, if the quarantine is done abroad

Paq · 07/10/2021 08:26

Are you in the UK? Getting no paid leave doesn't sound right.

What's the jobs market like where you are? I'd book the holiday and job hunt like mad.

Life is too short not to see family. I haven't seen my sister in 2.5 years and am hoping to go in November once travel restrictions to the US are lifted.

PlanDeRaccordement · 07/10/2021 08:26

It doesn’t matter what ACAS says, they only know U.K. employment laws and OP isn’t in the UK, so nothing they say would apply.

OP, In the absence of any tax issues, I think your boss is being unfair to not let you work from quarantine. I agree with making your case and asking why he doesn’t think it is workable. You’ve said he’s been reasonable up until now, so maybe there is a good reason. Or maybe he’s afraid you’ll go back to UK and never return?

Original poster

strandedexpat · 07/10/2021 08:30

@PigeonLittle I am not in the UK there is very limited employment rights where I am.
I think perhaps I wasn't clear in my OP I am not in the UK I live abroad and want to travel back to the UK. My country is on the red list so I have to hotel quarantine in the UK on arrival
@marykitty it is a small company my boss is the owner of the company there is no policy forcing this.

@Brefugee @suspiria777 this is good advice thankyou, going to take the weekend to calm myself down about it and try and put together solutions to any issues he may have and then approach and ask again

OP posts:

GoodGrief100 · 07/10/2021 08:33

I'd be proactive here and see if you can find someone who would be available to meet a client. If that's his concern and you can get someone to cover that aspect surely there won't be a problem? I understand his point but I do feel for you and others who've not been able to see family for so long.

Bluntness100 · 07/10/2021 08:38

Op you were very clear in your op.

Bottom line is though it doesn’t matter if anyone thinks he’s unreasonable or not, he’s said no so you need to find other plans or you need to look for other employment.

rookiemere · 07/10/2021 08:48

Is it likely your country will be taken off the Red list by December? They are cutting it back every 3 weeks.

PigeonLittle · 07/10/2021 08:51

Sorry about my mistake!

I would write a proposal, explaining that you will be in X location where internet will be good. Your family will provide you with a SIM card for internet if not before your first scheduled day. That you will fly in over your non working days to get set up first. That you will stick to the working times of your office.

You could also advice if preferable you can put some more hours in before December to cover your time away?

Then a brief conversation about how your visit back home will be rejuevenating and allow you to settle back and start 2022 with new passions, you hope to do XYZ projects next year.

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