To have no idea what I'm looking out for in a primary school?

[giraffes2021]

HELP
Looking at primary schools for DD

What should I be looking out for ? Anything specific?

As a headteacher, I'd suggest the only things that matter ...

Will my child be happy here? (you'll just know when you look round)

Is there a lot going on (clubs, trips, PTA - a strong indicator of whether the school is going the extra mile?)

How are all abilities catered for - you don't know whether your child is the next Einstein or will need additional support? (if all in class are doing exactly the same thing, that is not realistic and someone somewhere is missing out!).

Look at progress, not attainment scores in the league tables. They show what the school adds compared to others. Read the Ofsted report, but see it as a snapshot in time - things change quickly for better or worse.

Ultimately, and sadly in the sense of today's society, you also need to look through the eyes of "Will my child make close, secure friendships here" which makes schools where the intake is radically different from your background more of a challenge for your child to fit in.

The rest is just window dressing. Forest school or dance clubs? You're overthinking it. If the outcome is happy, successful children, it won't matter in 10 years time which route they took to get them there.

In my area the primary and first schools are all good or outstanding. There’s a lot more variation between the secondary and high schools so I’ve got half an eye on leaver destinations (although also bearing in mind that a lot can change in 7 years).

For a lot of schools at the moment, the pandemic is affecting their ability to offer open days etc. I felt we learned quite a bit from the different responses our local schools had to that last year - the one that went ahead with open days (small, distanced groups), the one that set up an online one-to-one with the head, the one that just put a video on the website. Depending on where you are, you may have similar questions.

One question we discussed after each school was 'if this was the only school available to us, would we be happy to send DD there?'. Thinking about it that way took some of the comparison pressure out of the equation and we quickly felt that basically all our local schools were good enough and the details were relatively minor.

In the end, we went for the school closest to us - mostly because it's a three-minute walk, door-to-door. So, of course, we'd seen a lot of the children coming and going past our house every day and there are lots of familiar faces around the school. The other genuine contender would be a 30-minute walk with DD, or a drive. Neither of those appealed.

During the application process, I was offered a job in another town (completely unfamiliar to me previously). In the end, I didn't take the offer, partly because I felt I was making an almost 'blind' choice between schools and there wasn't much time to speak with anyone before we had to make a decision. If the job offer came a few weeks earlier, we might have been better placed to move.

@NumberNineTwo

Number of kids being dropped off by car = parents who can afford a car and are probably going to work.

Number of kids receiving pupil premium also gives you an idea about whether the families are mostly middle class or on benefits.

Breakfast club and after school clubs.
Destinations for leavers.
Class sizes (I prefer smaller).
Good playground areas and outdoor facilities.
Staff turnover (low turnover indicates a good school).
Decent buildings, new extensions.
Start and end times.

Avoid any not rated Good by Ofsted! And check why they weren’t rated Outstanding - hopefully it’s nothing serious. Also check past Ofsted ratings - choose a school that has been reliably Good for some time, not one that was previously poorer.

Lots of Ofsted reports mention the standard of the average intake - avoid ones where they say the new starters are below average in ability, because this will hold your child back.

Meh, my kids have managed four different primary schools in different parts of the country (eldest now in Y7, youngest in Y1) and due to work based house moves we’ve never had any choice and on two occasions hadn’t set foot through the door before they started, and they’ve all been fine 🤷‍♀️

@MyDcAreMarvel

Good not outstanding, you want a child centred school not an Ofsted centred one.

I agree with this. Too much pressure in an outstanding school.

I asked what sort of art, PE, music etc lessons they had, to see how non-academic lessons are provided.
I asked whether they use attendance awards (discounted a school on the basis that they DID); how they ensure that kids who are average (not needing attention because they disruptive; not needing extra help or extra challenges due to struggling/being gifted) aren't just ignored but also nurtured.
I asked how food allergies are accommodated (one school discounted as the head said those kids would just not be in Food Tech classes).
I asked how they deal with bullying.

A school within your own community.
This is the first opportunity for your child to be independent, make their own friends and be part of their own local community.

@CatNamedEaster

I asked what sort of art, PE, music etc lessons they had, to see how non-academic lessons are provided. I asked whether they use attendance awards (discounted a school on the basis that they DID); how they ensure that kids who are average (not needing attention because they disruptive; not needing extra help or extra challenges due to struggling/being gifted) aren't just ignored but also nurtured. I asked how food allergies are accommodated (one school discounted as the head said those kids would just not be in Food Tech classes). I asked how they deal with bullying.

This was a question for me to, and I discounted a school where the headteacher said "Bullying never happens in this school". I don't want a school that looks passed it's problems, I want a school that says "These things happen and this is how we deal with it"

Good ofsted.
As close to home as possible.

I'm not on benefits but wtf has that got to do with anything?

@MyDcAreMarvel

Good not outstanding, you want a child centred school not an Ofsted centred one.

I completely agree with this. Have had DC at both a good and and outstanding one. The main difference that I could see between the two was the latter's preponderance with forms and data, with the former quite clearly putting children first, often to the detriment of paperwork (as opposed to producing reams and reams of marketing material to tell parents that they were putting children first).

I disagree with walkable, I went with gut feel and after visiting several schools I walked out of my daughters now school and felt very emotional! It's a 15min drive away and I wound travel double to get to it if required as it's amazing wind better than my local walkable school. X

Go with your gut and look for what’s on the walls. Ofstead means nothings, my children’s school is rated outstanding but that was assessed years and years ago, there’s been no inspection since we’ve attended and my son is now y5.

If I can jump on the thread… would you look oddly at a school where the children call all the staff, even the head, by their first names? My nearest school does this and it seems very odd to me. They also have no uniform and a policy of neither rewarding nor punishing behaviour. It’s ofsted outstanding and other mums seem to think I’m crazy, but I think I’d rather send DD to the more normal, but less well rated, school slightly further away.

My son is currently in Y5. When I was looking when he was 4 I focused mainly on his immediate needs, I didnt really know what to look for for when he got older, but I can tell you what I'd look for now. He has got a great teacher this year but had an awful one last year. The great one has a good connection with the kids, knows them all well, gets them doing a variety of different things. The terrible one would have a laugh with the class but didn't know them as well. And lessons were mainly cut and paste or a worksheet printed out. I imagine you'll be taken round to see the best teachers but if you get to look in books or talk to the kids, I'd try and look to see if the teacher has a relationship with them and that the work they do is creative and engaging.

Happy kids.

Check out the local Facebook groups including the PTA. If they're behind the school it's a damned good sign.

Is it close by? The wonderfully rated primary three changes of bus away may seem a great idea on paper but in the bleak midwinter, having a school that you can get to and from in 20 minutes flat will suddenly become far more appealing.

Go to the open days. Are the staff approachable? What's the staff turnover like? (bear in mind that a change of head especially a long term incumbent can mean a huge turnover really quickly)

Obviously OFSTED ratings. (same caveat for changes of head)

Happy kids. I know I've said it previously but if you can get your kids waiting for you at the door to go to school it's half the battle.

We're lucky as our walking distance primary is pretty damned good with a head who the kids, staff and parents rate.

Gut feeling - do you trust the staff with your child's wellbeing and education?
You can pore over data as much as you like - but it will never give you an accurate picture of a school.

Visit in person:

• Behaviour / atmosphere is key
• Displays - does the work look interesting / nicely presented?
• How local is it? You'll get tired of dropping off / arranging social dates
• Any community events you can go to before your child joins? Christmas fayre etc

Website:
Look at the curriculum topics, texts and visits
What's the parent info / newsletter suggest?
Look at any policies that might be of concern to you
Any extra curricular events / clubs

Read the OFSTED but bear in mind they have unrealistic expectations, constantly change the goalposts and may be well overdue so you can't really compare an outstanding school from 10 years ago with a recent 'good' rating. Some schools play the OFSTED game more than others.

If you go to an open day and see kids doing something lovely, ask how often they use that equipment in lessons. I remember being asked to play with some fancy equipment at one but had never seen it before!

Wow @NumberNineTwo what an unpleasant post.

So people should avoid schools where people walk to school, as they clearly can't afford a car and don't work?

And even if people don't work, wtf has that got to do with anything?

Starters below average ability "will hold your child back"? Nice

Thanks for all your replies will add them to my notepad hahaha
I was looking in terms of class size but the school I looked at this week had 3 classes and they said that they split the classes up in terms of ability which I guess is probably a good thing so the kids that need the extra support will get that and the kids that are excelling won't get held back which I guess you won't always get in a one class school!
I think it's got to be gut feeling isn't it x

@NumberNineTwo - that doesn't work in many areas as people like us with 2 cars still collect from school on foot because its close and parking is a nightmare.

Id add that kids who and dropped in cars are less likely to be walking home together in year 6 without parents, so going from being driven everywhere to getting buses /trains for secondary is a big step.

Also primaries where everyone walks to school are primaries where classmates all live in walking distance from your house. This is great for weekend /after school / holiday playdates and meet ups. Its easier if you are stuck somewhere and not sure if you'll make it in time for pick up to ask another parent to walk your child home and you'll meet them on the way, than expect someone to have a spare car seat in their car to take your child with them.

I would look for the opposite - too many kids being dropped off in the car is not a positive. I’d much rather a school with a good mix of children arriving on foot, cycling, off the bus and a small proportion in the car.

Yes me too. For one thing it’s awful when you walk past schools where every child is being dropped off by car and you get a face full of exhaust - can’t be good for children.

Good or Outstanding Ofsted reports,
Positive word of mouth recommendations from friends and neighbours,
What do they do for very bright children, those with SEN and children in the middle?
Are you religious? Do you want a CofE, Catholic, Jewish or Muslim school - or none of the above? If you like things like Nativity plays you may want CofE or Catholic.
How far is it from your house?
Are you in catchment?
Do you like the feel of the place, facilities and teachers when you visit?
What do they do re enrichment? Trips, instruments, extra curricular?

Number of kids being dropped off by car = parents who can afford a car and are probably going to work.

What a pile of nonsense.

Schools in urban areas have tiny catchments - ours is 500m. The promote walking, cycling, and scooting to school as a way of promoting health, reducing air pollution, and making it safer to walk around schools.

People living and working in urban areas may well be able to afford a car or own one but still use public transport to commute.

I would be put off by a school where most people dropped off by car, sounds awful.

What an old fashioned brand of snobbery