To ask for ‘normal average’ salaries?

[Mamacita191]

After seeing loads of posts recently about what people earn, I feel like it’s a completely different world to what I am living in. I live in the midlands and a good salary is 30-40k which is what most people comfortably sit at. I certain rarely see jobs advertised for £60k or more (even 6 figures which I’ve read is what some people make!). Even the jobs that people advise to go into such as lawyers and accountants in a good firm etc don’t make 3 figures as I’ve read on here.

Is it just me who thinks 30-40k is a normal salary that a lot of people sit comfortably at? Am I missing out on something?

@Igmum

That table will slightly overstate earnings pokkura. It uses the mean so the small number of VERY high earners will push the average up. Most analyses use the median to avoid this

It says median earnings in the title.

It will overstate in the sense it is only considering full time though.

@ChickPeaSalad

IMO, YABU to think 30-40k is a 'normal' salary. To me and many others that's very high.

I grew up in a city where the average wage was tiny. Scraped along on £11-12k for years. I'm in an area now where the medium salary is £16k.

I'm earning £40k now and certainly don't think it's an average, normal wage. As others have highlighted in the thread £40k puts you above approx 80% of the population in terms of earnings. Does that sound 'normal' or 'average' to you?

Do you mean 'medium' or 'median' salary? @ChickPeaSalad

There is a difference. A lot of people here do not understand the difference between average and median.

I hate to say it, but clearly a lot of this is about skills and education.

You can't expect to earn a high salary if you have no qualifications unless you count being a skilled tradesman (plumber, builder, etc)

If you left school at 16 or 18 and have no higher ed, how can anyone expect to earn what a graduate might? (and yes, not all graduates earn a lot.)

"Average weekly earnings for total pay was £578 and regular pay was £542 in July 2021." So approx. £30k annual.

www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/september2021

I understand where you're coming from, however. I sometimes read articles of young couples with a six figure income for ordinary sounding jobs, i.e. not high flying, and wonder how it's possible.

Without getting too nerdy…what do you mean by average? Are you talking about the mean average- that is calculated by adding up total of all salaries and dividing by the number of people . That mean average is actually only be earnt by a small number of people, it depends on the distribution range which will range between minimum wage and the millionaires . However, mean salary is only meaningful if that distribution is a “normal” distribution around the mean- with uk salaries it’s not- it is very bottom end weighted by low earners. The mean is therefore pretty meaningless by itself.

The medium is the middle number- so you rank all the salaries earnt by indivuoas in order of size. You determine what the population is, divide that in 2 and then find the salary of that rank order number (e.g. if there are 3 million earners than it would be the million and a half number in ranked order. Again becuase of the distribution of salaries is not likely to be a normal curve it is not entirely getting the answer you want, but is regarded as the “fairest” representation by the uk Gov statistics dept.
What I think you also want to know is the mode- what do most people earn ( the value that appears the most). This is the value that appears the most.
So on Gov statistic and other sites a quick look
Mean. £36800 roughly based on lots of low paid, and some very big earners
Medium. £31500 - the middle ranked value, how do you stack up in the rank order of all salaries in the country
Mode - surprisingly the uk Gov NEVER calculate a mode. A quick search on line gives a general consensus of about £15k . So, overwhelmingly most people earn very significantly less than the mean. This is probably a reflection on the number of part time works, minimum income and gig economy transients work .

These are telling statistic, that tell you most people are on a very low wage, but the mean is much higher becuase of handful of individual who are paid obscene amounts of money and bear in mind that the government statistic only work this out based on tax returns, where the extremely wealthy are ducking and diving around the spirit of the law they could well actually receive far more than their declared income.
Levelling up my foot.
Here is press article from august 21
“ The annual pay of FTSE 100 chief executives fell during the pandemic but still equates to what a key worker would earn in a lifetime, according to a report that highlights the UK’s wage divide and the taxpayer support that has kept some companies afloat.The bosses of companies in the blue-chip share index were paid £2.69m on average in 2020, the High Pay Centre said, with vaccine-maker AstraZeneca’s chief executive, Pascal Soriot, taking top spot thanks to a £15.45m deal.The average pay figure fell by 17% compared with the £3.25m recorded in 2019 but is still 86 times the £31,000 that an ordinary British worker can expect to earn in a year.”

@julieca @PileOfBooks

Just sharing data from a nat rep survey with over 30,000 respondents
from a couple of months ago. The facts were very telling. Some people who earned less household income had more disposable income after bills were paid.

Of course people can choose to spend their disposable income on whatever they want and 'take responsibility' for it.

I could resonate with this - my mum and dad had well paid jobs - they sent me and my siblings to private school. We holiday'd in France and never bought brand new anything. My local friends, whose parents were paid less but didn't go to private school - always went to Florida, had the latest toys / clothes and all had their own sky box.

@NotresDames
Qualifications count in some professions, but not in others.

I manage research projects, I did a BSc, then a MSc, then a PhD, I have various project management qualifications and I could not do my job without the understanding that my education brings to it, I earn six figures. My husband has a BSc, it is irrelevant to his career and earns six figures. My brother left school with only GCSEs, did various jobs for years and now earns almost as much as my husband and I put together, running his own specialist marketing company.

Qualifications are only important for high earnings in sectors where the qualification is integral to the career. You won't find any doctors without a medical degree, you won't find lawyers without professional qualifications, but there are many high paid jobs where a degree, is irrelevant. As an example, three of the worlds ten richest people do not have degrees, of those that do, only two have degrees in fields that are relevant to how they made their billions.

When looking at the figures for eg median full time salaries do they take into account employer pension contributions. These can vary greatly , if for instance civil service it can be circa 27% of salary, teaching circa 23%, medicine circa 20%. Obviously above can be checked via various unions online, can even vary a bit according to what part of the UK. I think I would take these employer contributions very seriously if considering a jobs in these fields so wonder if they are looked into for other purposes.

all discussion here was the median not mean the median full time single salary is approx 30k regional variations from around 23-36k
median household income is only just above that as some are on zero hours some part time some unemployed some have two part time workers others have one worker on more and a SAHP so median means roughly 20 million households have less and 20 million households have more

Oops, I did mean median @NotresDames

Though I’ve just realised the year this data was captured was 2011! I’m sure it’s gone up a little since then, though I haven’t found such an easy to read graph elsewhere yet.

www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/nov/24/wages-britain-ashe-mapped

I earn a little more than £40k and DH earns around £75k. I feel like we're rich, tbh. 25 years ago when I was in my teens, my dad got a new job on £20k and I remember that felt like loads as he'd been on £16k before, and my mum didn't work at all.

@SilverGlassHare

I earn a little more than £40k and DH earns around £75k. I feel like we're rich, tbh. 25 years ago when I was in my teens, my dad got a new job on £20k and I remember that felt like loads as he'd been on £16k before, and my mum didn't work at all.

£20k 25 years ago is the equivalent of £40k now. £16k-20k is the equivalent of an £8k pay rise, which would be pretty good today as well.

High Street lawyers don't make sic figures. Commercial City lawyers certainly do (I am one)

Six*

@Pipsquiggle yes those things probably cost less that private school fees or about the same.

@SilverGlassHare it is really good to hear someone with income of just over 100K actually saying it is rich and not pretending they are just about Ok for a few years before I married I earnt just over 100K and I felt that was rich too, not mega pop star footballer royalty rich but richer than almost everyone else that had a job. if you earn more than 97% of the population you are rich I was happy then and I am happy now at under the median income as I have more than I need as have courtesy of higher before much more than average savings. I am fortunate but also when I had more money I didn't spend it all
life style inflation can rapidly erode the benefits of a salary rise

@PileOfBooks

30-40 might be average around degree educated people etc.

However it's quite a bit above minimum wage and there are an awful lot of people on less. I would imagine its above average in our area/many areas. Maybe seen as a good goal?

Many local council jobs Im looking at (with degrees and an ex teacher) are banded at 24-27. So library work doing summer reading challenge, family support workers etc.

Mainscale teachers wont get above 30s and will start in 20s.

So definitely aspirational rather than average here!

Mainscale teachers can definitely earn over 3o grand! See www.nasuwt.org.uk/advice/pay-pensions/pay-scales/wales-pay-scales.html - over 37,000 after six years for just a normal classroom teacher, over 40k with additional responsibilities, much more once you start getting into senior leadership.

OP it's also important to remember how many hours people in very well paid jobs sometimes (not always!) do. E.g. if I was on 30k for my 37hr per week full time job and someone else is on 60k but does sixty hours plus a week then our hourly take home rate wouldn't be that different, particularly after higher tax rate etc. Also things like good pensions in public sector, additional days leave etc all need to be factored in.

A few in our family hoping to get off minimum wage, teachers/admin roles on circa £30-40k then Architect £50k, GP on £100k + and Barrister £180k+ 10 years call. (London).

Only employed barrister jobs are advertised with a salary. Most are self employed, desperately competitive entry, 5-6 years+ training, top notch academics, long unsocial hours and stressful. Need lots of self belief. Not for the faint hearted. Some wastage in the early years but senior Juniors/QCs may earn several times figure quoted above. Workaholics.

[quote MatildaIThink]@NotresDames
Qualifications count in some professions, but not in others.

I manage research projects, I did a BSc, then a MSc, then a PhD, I have various project management qualifications and I could not do my job without the understanding that my education brings to it, I earn six figures. My husband has a BSc, it is irrelevant to his career and earns six figures. My brother left school with only GCSEs, did various jobs for years and now earns almost as much as my husband and I put together, running his own specialist marketing company.

Qualifications are only important for high earnings in sectors where the qualification is integral to the career. You won't find any doctors without a medical degree, you won't find lawyers without professional qualifications, but there are many high paid jobs where a degree, is irrelevant. As an example, three of the worlds ten richest people do not have degrees, of those that do, only two have degrees in fields that are relevant to how they made their billions.[/quote]
Of course there will always be people without further education who earn shedloads but that’s not the point.
Having a degree/qualifications/trade skills allows the majority of its holders to earn a decent living with a reasonable amount of effort.
Your brother makes a lot but by having his own business - something that the majority of the population isn’t suited for. He may also have caught a lucky break.
Meanwhile someone earning min wage as a waitress can’t expect to earn that much unless something changes.
FYI those billionaires without degrees were smart enough to get into the best U.S universities. They dropped out because business boomed but had they not been in university and used its resources they’d never have had the chance in the first place.

Sorry if the point wasn’t clear - people with degrees are more likely to earn a good wage than those without.
It’s like saying ‘I know someone from a deprived area with a crap school who got all A*s and went to Oxbridge, so that standard of education is good enough’

High Street lawyers don't make sic figures

Well they can if they’re equity partners.

I'm on around 40K a year (it's a little complicated to work out as I have 2 jobs, one of which varies a bit, but that's about right and it equates to about one FT job). Over the last year I've been on mat leave so had a bit over half of that.

At the moment my income supports our whole family (me, DH and DD). We're comfortably off - we have to think before we spend sometimes but we can afford trips out, holidays etc., and have savings to cover unexpected emergencies. But our housing cost is low - we have a mortgage but it's small. Someone with a bigger mortgage or renting might find living on our income a struggle.

30-40 might be average around degree educated people etc.

It took me till I was 30 to break £20k as an annual salary! With a degree!

I’m 39 and earning £42k now, based on where I was five years ago it feels insanely high. BUT - I want more money as the reality is that the more money you have the more you spend. We’re moving soon to a much bigger house, it’s the first time since we bought this property we’ve been in a position to even consider it.

Midlands and north £30-40k really is a decent salary, London skews average salaries. I've seen managerial jobs in my field advertised at £25k

Should have said - I consider my salary as high and am aware it's higher than the median.

@TractorAndHeadphones Statistically its true as well. Someone with a degree earns on average 10k more than someone without a degree. This even includes all the graduates of universities which aren't reputable and have low entry requirements.

Its why people still go to university despite the heavy debt. Even though its no guarantee, you are still likely to earn more. I mean my DH earns 50k and he only pays £200 per month towards his student loan and the vast majority of people pay much less so earning at least 10k more throughout your working life is still worth it.