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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

At a loss with this situation

24 replies

BrotherMother · 03/10/2021 09:13

NCed for this as it’s very outing but I’m at a loss with what to do in this situation now.

Lost both my parents by early 20s and have 3 younger siblings. I’d basically brought them up as kids as mum was an addict.

When my DF died, one sibling went to foster care as under 16 and one already had her own place.

Now, my issue is with my brother. He has on and off lived with my DH and I for 5 years. It’s been HARD and caused so many arguments between DH and I. Over these 5 years we have worked out we have given/lent/spent around £10k on him.

The last time he came to stay we asked him for rent and then put this aside so that he had a flat deposit. We finally thought he had things together and he moved out just before Covid struck.

Over the last 4-6 months things have got progressively worse with my brother. He has made attempts on his life (or threatened them), hasn’t been paying any rent or bills for his flat, doesn’t have a job, lost his girlfriend who was paying his bills (because she said she felt used), and his flat was an absolute pit that me and my sisters went over to clean up as it just seemed unliveable.

My DH and I have tried to set boundaries and help where we can. We have dropped food and toiletries over, cleaned the flat, given him a few days paid work (through my DH business), and lots of other bits that don’t just involve giving him money as he’s an ex (so he says) gambling addict. I did give him £2k at the beginning of this year after receiving a payout for something that I split between all my siblings, but other than that we have refused to help with money. I simply don’t have it to give anyway!!

During these hardest times we have had long conversations about how to move forward from all this. I’ve suggested he signs up for UC so he gets some money, talks to the council about getting on the housing list, seeing a GP/therapist about the depression, getting ANY kind of job to help himself.

He’s basically said we are wrong, that he knows what he’s doing and that he doesn’t need to do any of those things. He’s just moved in with one of my sisters as he couldn’t afford the rent at his flat anymore and she offered him a place to stay. Although they don’t always get on very well so it’s unlikely to last long.

He’s told my sister that we offered to help him move with DH’s van, that we offered him somewhere to store stuff, and that he’d asked DH for work and that he would get back to him. NONE of these things are true, he hasn’t spoken to us at all.

He’s point blank refusing to ring up UC or get any kind of job, so he ended up telling my youngest sister a lie about how he needed £20 for a PAYG phone to do that and went out to buy meal deals and chocolate with that money instead (not even enough food for a few days). My youngest sister is the one who has been through the foster care system, is now on UC and has two babies - not really someone he should be begging for money.

I appreciate this is insanely long but I’m just at a loss as to what to do. I’m having frequent panic attacks about it all, because on the one hand I don’t want him to end up homeless but on the other he’s point blank refusing to do anything that would help himself. As someone who has suffered manic depression and PTSD I know that it can be difficult to get help, but this has been a cycle of relying on his sisters for so long now and I feel like every time we save him he becomes less independent and thinks we’ll save him forever.

AIBU to not want to deal with it anymore?

OP posts:
BrotherMother · 03/10/2021 09:15

Sorry, meant to mention that he’s mid-20s!

OP posts:
FreedomFaith · 03/10/2021 09:17

He's an adult, he has said he doesn't want help, he is refusing help, so stop helping.

Tell him you will help ONLY with helping to get him UC, therapy sessions (on NHS, you are not paying for them), or helping him find a job. You are no longer his bank.

Seems harsh, but you have made him too dependent on you. If you died tomorrow (God forbid) he'd be screwed.

PlonkyWillyWonky · 03/10/2021 09:18

You poor thing but I think you need to take a step back for the sake of your own mental health.
Very hard I know

BrotherMother · 03/10/2021 09:21

@FreedomFaith that is exactly what I said we would help him with going forward. He said he didn’t need tough love right now, he needs support. But then all the lies came out that make DH and I look like terrible people and I was just dumbstruck. I feel like we’re being manipulated!

OP posts:
Mermaidwaves · 03/10/2021 09:22

I think you've tried your best and been a really good sister to him but this will carry on all your lives if you don't stop now. This sounds awful but he might need to reach rock bottom before he takes some responsibility for himself

Howshouldibehave · 03/10/2021 09:25

[quote BrotherMother]@FreedomFaith that is exactly what I said we would help him with going forward. He said he didn’t need tough love right now, he needs support. But then all the lies came out that make DH and I look like terrible people and I was just dumbstruck. I feel like we’re being manipulated![/quote]
Who is he telling these lies to? Just say you haven’t spoken to him at all so anything he says about you won’t be true.

Disengage. It’s up to your sisters what level of hep they give. You can only control how much help you give.

BrotherMother · 03/10/2021 09:28

I know that I need to take a step back, but the guilt is unbearable. My DM took her own life and when he sends messages that he’s going to do the same all of the trauma comes flooding back and I just want to help. I don’t know how to stop feeling that guilt from taking a step back Sad

OP posts:
BrotherMother · 03/10/2021 09:29

@Howshouldibehave he tells them to my sisters so that they then help him out, because it looks like DH and I are offering help and then rescinding it. Like I said, it all feels very manipulative!

OP posts:
MatildaTheCat · 03/10/2021 09:34

[quote BrotherMother]@FreedomFaith that is exactly what I said we would help him with going forward. He said he didn’t need tough love right now, he needs support. But then all the lies came out that make DH and I look like terrible people and I was just dumbstruck. I feel like we’re being manipulated![/quote]
You ARE being manipulated. You’ve offered support over and over again with the same results. It’s madness to consider his requests. I’d suggest you try to have a whole family meeting and decide what you can all do and not do and stick to it.

Porcupineintherough · 03/10/2021 09:35

Love, if he wants to take his own life you cant stop him. Flowers He's spiralling into chaos at the moment and you can't stop that either - he needs professional help and he needs to be in a place where he can accept it. It may be that in the future you can help him pick up the pieces but your boundaries for what you will and wont do are sensible ones. Now is the time to prioritize yourself and your own mh.

Justilou1 · 03/10/2021 09:36

Honey… You know what people are going to say because most of us have someone similar in our lives. My brother doesn’t even have the tragic history your family did. He was simply made to be completely dysfunctional and entitled by my parents. When they died, he assumed that I would continue with this. I am certainly not in a financial position to do so, nor am I willing to, as he is aggressive when he doesn’t get what he wants. I have kids of my own and frankly, we’re all frightened of him. (We have enough evidence of his behaviour to have a restraining order in place.) I think you have to accept that you are enabling him by continuing to pick him up.

FreedomFaith · 03/10/2021 09:51

[quote BrotherMother]@FreedomFaith that is exactly what I said we would help him with going forward. He said he didn’t need tough love right now, he needs support. But then all the lies came out that make DH and I look like terrible people and I was just dumbstruck. I feel like we’re being manipulated![/quote]
If you have proof that you have offered him help, show that to those who are believing him. If they still believe him, that's on them.

Otherwise, I'd do what someone else suggested and have a sit down with everyone and explain to your brother that he needs professional help, not just having his family pay his debts. If he still refuses and your sister still wants to help him, that's all on them. Make it clear you are there for any other kind of assistance, but not financial. It's not helping him.

You have to be blunt and brutal in these situations. Being nice gets you nowhere, they still just think they can manipulate you. It may take being homeless for him to realise he's made a big mistake, but if that's what it takes, let it happen.

Member984815 · 03/10/2021 09:59

You have already done more than most people would , you are right to take a step back

OverTheRubicon · 03/10/2021 10:05

One of my parents has been in this position with their brother since teen years. It's never stopped, as children we hated and resented him and what he was doing to our family, but our parent always told us how he was sick, how he'd been damaged by their parents, good person underneath, addiction is an illness etc etc.

Well, he's now clean, came into some money and turns out that not only would he not pay back all the family members he'd taken money from (even the ones in great need), he's spent the last 6 months lying to everyone and likely himself to paint everyone else as grasping vultures. Turns out that he was fundamentally behaving like a arse all these years because he was a arse. It probably isn't all his fault, he had some genetic curses made worse by a horrendous upbringing. But so did my parent and their other siblings - and they've worked so hard, only to have him make things so much worse.

All of your children deserve to be free of this. You need to set loving boundaries. Can you access any counselling via the NHS? Or at least go to a local Al Anon chapter meeting - it's not just for families of alcoholics, and you'll be shocked by the patterns you will start to recognise, and support you can get.

LittleOwl153 · 03/10/2021 10:06

Bring your sisters together and agree a way forward. Support each other in forcing him to either get help through UC/NHS etc or to leave all of you alone. None of you need his agro but it is unlikely he will stand on his own feet whilst he can bounce between the sympathy of the 3 of you.

Franklyfrost · 03/10/2021 10:18

It sounds like your brother isn’t able to live a stable life. It’s good you try to help him but, I’m sorry to say this, your expectation that he can live a normal life seems unreasonable. For example giving him 2k is not a good idea. Putting that 2k into an account in your name and paying for hostels/ clothes/ food etc out of it when he comes calling is a better idea. Does he have a social worker?

BrilliantBulb · 03/10/2021 10:26

Step up communication between the rest of your siblings massively so that he knows you’ll all fact check with each other and he can’t get away with manipulative lies.

Then take a step back from helping him. Tell him you’ll be there to encourage him to get support but that until then you can’t cope with his actions any more.

Notaroadrunner · 03/10/2021 10:27

Have a word with your sisters. Tell them the amount of support you have given and offered to him over the years. Tell him you are no longer in a position to support him as your own MH is suffering. Then tell him you are not available for the foreseeable future as you need to focus on your MH and your marriage. He is a manipulative adult who is using you. If he does take his own life it will be his own decision - nothing to do with you. However I doubt he is serious and is using that as another manipulative tool. You and your Dh need to take a massive step back from him. With you and Dh bailing him out he has no incentive to sort himself out. It's up to your sisters if they wish to help him but they'll soon realise they have to step back too.

I appreciate you feel responsibility towards your siblings but you need to focus your energies on your own family - Dh/dc (if you have any) and most importantly on your own MH. I suggest you get counselling for yourself to work through the guilt and learn that your siblings are old enough to make their own way in the world.

forrestgreen · 03/10/2021 10:34

I'd set up a group chat. Probably without db. To tell all your sisters what you've done and what you've offered.
Say you're at the end of your tether, the only thing available is help to access benefits. And that you won't be manipulated by suicidal talk.
Say it'd be great if we could all sing from the same hymn sheet but you realise that they might not be at the same place you are.

Then send db a text, saying how disappointed you are in the lies he's told after all the help you've offered.
The only help now is x from you.
Any suicidal talk will ensure you ring 999 for him. That you love him but you can't keep supporting these choices.

Neverwrestlewithapig · 03/10/2021 11:12

This is tough and sadly not uncommon.
Think of it this way, giving in to his requests is not supporting him. It is not actually helping him. Instead, you are being drawn in to enabling him. Pp are correct when they say you should try to come together as a family with an agreed approach. Communication is key between you otherwise he will manipulate you all and your relationships will break down.
There is no easy solution but you are going to have to insist on non-financial support only. You cannot keep giving your family money to him. It’s not helping him anyway.
Good luck Flowers

Loocheeyar · 03/10/2021 11:23

These people go from one sucker to the next getting what they want and not caring for the destruction they leave in their wake . They can and frequently do rob their own granny . Agencies and professionals are available for exactly these reasons so point him in their directions and protect your younger sister from being rinsed by him also .
Don’t be a doormat saying no is what he needs to hear .

Youcancallmeval · 03/10/2021 11:32

My brother is very similar but in his 40s... As pps have said, you need to stop enabling him, he will bleed you dry financially and emotionally and then trample on what is left. I know it is hard, but he will never be grateful or independent, so you either settle yourself in for another 40 years of it, or step back and refuse to go along with him, no matter how hard it seems or the threats and accusations he will throw at you.

BrotherMother · 03/10/2021 12:00

Thank you all.

I’ve just had a long chat with my sister who has given him somewhere to stay. It’s only been 4 days but she’s already having a breakdown. He’s not getting out of bed other than to eat all their food and has refused to help with any cleaning or anything.

I’ve spoken to her about everything I’ve said her and the amazing advice already, and she’s going to have a chat with him today about what her and her DH are willing to do and what they’re not.

She also said that he called me a liar when I said he hadn’t asked my DH for work so we’re going to set up a group chat with the sisters to monitor how he’s playing us off against each other.

I really thought I was going to get flamed for being done with it, so I’m really grateful for all the firm but fair words of advice.

OP posts:
Notaroadrunner · 03/10/2021 12:10

Great idea to have the sisters group chat. Your sister needs to know that she and her Dh don't need to put up with him staying and treating them like crap. None of you need to put up with it. The best you can all do is source information regarding financial assistance, maybe help with putting together a CV for job hunting. But otherwise it's up to him to get off his arse and actively look for work and a place to live.

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