Which option would you choose?

[Twocrabs30]

I have 2 DC - 4 & 6.
I met my STBXH 8 years ago in the UK. We both come from other countries and have no family in the UK.
We separated shortly after the birth of our 2nd DD.
I wanted to return back to my home country.
Due to fortunate set of circumstances I managed to get back home and managed to stay in my home country. My DC are with me.

My STBXH is now living with me in my home country. He is open to moving to my home country, to raise our daughters here. But for him to get a permanent visa / right to reside we have to ‘reunite’ as a couple for immigration purposes and live together another 2-3 years. I find him very controlling and this is making me depressed. I am now on antidepressants to help me cope. This is option 1.

Option 2 I voluntarily return with daughters and him back to the UK. I live in effective exile from my home country. Neutral territory however for both STBXH and myself. Neither of us have family support. He won’t do much parenting in any country. At most perhaps every other weekend. I would be without family support, but would have friends around me. Option 2.

I tell STBXH that I want to remain in my home country and I can’t support him in visa, which means he will have to return to Uk, and my DC will grow up without a father (he is kind and loving to them, just not great to me) and he may only see them 1-2 times a year at most. Option 3.

Twocrabs30 that does seem to be strict rules

@BootsScootsAndToots - realistically no, there isn’t another route for his residency. He doesn’t work in a skilled area in demand by my home country.

@converseandjeans
Unlike in the EU, there is no human right in my home country to respect for a private and family life - and hence any associated migration rights that comes from being immediate family.

Hence, to show a family relationship for visa purposes, one needs proof like living in the same residence and sharing a bank account etc.

You said you think option 1 is best for the DC. Do you have to live together alone? Could you have someone from your family, parents, sibling etc move in with you too?

@EagleOrIgel
Could you have someone from your family, parents, sibling etc move in with you too? no

From 6 onwards I only saw my father during the summer and Christmas school holidays with only letters in between.

It was usually about 5 weeks in summer and 10 days after Christmas.

It didn’t feel at all like being deprived of a parent or however else people are describing option 3...

I wouldn’t pick number 3 because you’d have to answer to the kids when they grow up and the loser would end up being you. “Your mum didn’t want to help me or move to a country I could live to see you more often. I had no money to see you every year, I’ve missed you. It was not my fault”
I’d pick option 2, move back in the UK until the kids are teens. They are not kids forever for you to need round the clock nannies or afterschool clubs.
Many single mothers survive alone. I’m in the uk without family or support network and work full time.
Was it hard? Yes, but it got easier and easier until my DD turned 12. Now, it’s fine, she’s 14, I can have my life back.
It’s better than 2-3 years of hell (or if you’re in a country like Japan could be forever) and better than depriving your kids of their father and that coming back to bite you in the behind.

Whatever choice you make I really don't agree that him not being able to be in the same country as his children should even be a choice.

You met in the UK, you married and lived together in the UK, and you had two children together when there.

So whatever has happened between the two of you, unless a parent is actually abusive or dangerous to the children, I don't believe either parent should be able to just take the children and leave the country.

He has offered to move his life himself to your country, and obviously you shouldn't have to live together when it makes you feel as it does, but there isn't really much more he can do to see his children than follow you if you've taken them away from him.

He seems to be a good father, whatever sort of husband he was, if he cares about his children enough that he's followed you 18 hours across the globe and said he will move to your home country (when he already left his own and made a life with you in another).

The people who say you should stay in your home country with the children and tell him to leave would not say that, I don't believe, if you were a father saying "I brought the children to my home country from the UK and now their mum's come here and is offering to live with us and stay here but it's making me depressed having her in the house. Should I tell her to go, and stay here with the children just us?".

People would be so angry and say it was parental abduction.... and you don't say what he said about you moving home when you left the UK for us to know whether he said that was ok with him, but now he's saying it's not, and has followed you there, or whether you just went because you wanted to.

But the most important thing here is the children, and unfortunately when you have two children with someone and make a commitment to their health and stability together, you shouldn't then make a parenting choice that affects them by yourself. Even if it is for your own "health" because, as depressed as you would feel living with him for two years, it isn't going to be as bad as a parent losing contact and parenting rights of their children because they've been taken 18 hours away. The the damage it will do to the children could be even worse. So whatever you do about living with him to get him into your country, or going back to the UK, you need to do it jointly with him and remember that, if you wouldn't be ok with him doing to you what you are thinking you could do to him, then it just isn't fair on him as an equal parent with equal rights as you to his children, and it 100 % isn't fair on them.

Option 1 or 2, it is out of order to have dc in one country knowing the implications if you split are that.if you move home then you are depriving your dc of their other parent.

Almost 98% of the decisions which have led to me and the DC being where we are now - and with STBXH currently residing with me and DC - have been done in full consultation, openness and agreement with STBXH.

But I am struggling. I knew it would be difficult to live with him again, I just didn’t appreciate how hard.

I am living Option 1 and struggling with how I can get through the next few years. I wondered if anyone would have chosen different options? Hence this AIBU question. And I suppose I can always change my mind - and consult with STBXH about a different choice.

Alternatively, I wonder what strategies I employ to survive the next few years.

My love for my 2 DC means I don’t want to deprive them of their father. But I am struggling.

All the childcare falls to me; he will ‘help’ me with them, but not allow me any time or space away from them, by him caring for them on his own. I feel observed all the time. I have no privacy. We are separated but effectively I have to ask his permission to do any activity to be away from the DC - like hairdresser etc - and then come straight back. I thought when we separated I’d get a bit more time for myself. And this international element has just made it all so complicated and hard. I am just finding it so tough.

Is there any danger of him managing to take them to his home country? If he thinks he's going to end up back in the UK barely seeing them would he do something silly like that?

Is there a job he could do in your country where he lives away for part of the week? That would make the 2 years go faster.

And finally, is there a penalty for splitting up a short time after he receives his visa? Does that end up looking like visa fraud?

@LifesNotEnidBlyton
But the most important thing here is the children, and unfortunately when you have two children with someone and make a commitment to their health and stability together, you shouldn't then make a parenting choice that affects them by yourself.

And I agree with this. And I suppose it is what comes from being an ‘adult’ and the compromises you make when you have children. But gosh it’s hard.

I don’t think I appreciated when I had children it would be this hard, and the compromises would involve sacrificing so many years of my life, and having to endure such a bad situation for my children’s benefit. I don’t know how to be ok or at peace with the situation I am in.

Is there any danger of him managing to take them to his home country? yes, though unlikely, which reminds me I should move their passports.

Is there a job he could do in your country where he lives away for part of the week? that’s a great suggestion. I would feel sooo much better just not having him in the house sometimes.

And finally, is there a penalty for splitting up a short time after he receives his visa? No

I don’t think I appreciated ... the compromises would involve sacrificing so many years of my life, and having to endure such a bad situation for my children’s benefit.

I think this line of thought is too simplistic. Yes your children benefit from having their dad's love as well. But if you're really struggling and suffering under the spell of a controlling person (I know from experience what this is like), this is not good for your children either . Sometimes we think that our parenting is still the same, their lives are still the same etc but I think every little interaction between them and you is affected by how you feel about yourself, whether you're happy and confident or depressed and self-loathing (not saying you are but that's how abusive people can often make you feel). You also model to hour children how to feel about oneself, how to interact with others, how/when it is okay to set boundaries and so on.

I would pick Option 2. I would absolutely discount Option 1 due to the above. You are already struggling and not just your own, but your children's lives too would be much richer and happier if you can feel free and confident. In comparison the sacrifice associated with Option 2 - not living in your home country - seems smaller to me. Even if you don't have family in the UK, you have friends who can hopefully form part of a support network for yourself?

If his controlling behaviour is enough to constitute domestic abuse, which I imagine it is considering its making you mentally unwell then you shouldn't be exposing the children to it as that is emotional abuse to them.

His behaviour has led to him living far apart, he should have known this when he chose to have DC's with you.

Go home and let him have contact once/twice a year. We have phones/ video calls now- they can do that every day if they want! It's not like years gone by.

@felulageller would you say this if a father took his kids and moved 13 hours away from where you were both living?
Doubtful.

option 1 seems best but remember that if you choose this option it gives you power over him. Therefore, lay out ground rules.
He looks after the children by himself for set times each week.
He leaves the house for a set time each week, e.g. to pursue a hobby or whatever so that you then know you will have time for yourself at home and outside of the home.
Make your lives as separate as possible, and if he won't cooperate, choose option 3

If you really want to stay in your home country, then lay down some rules, possibly with the help of a lawyer.
He gets to stay but in return he has to abide by some strictly adhered to rules and boundaries.
Can he possibly house share somewhere else but have all his mail sent to your address and just come over when its his time to look after the children?. All the evidence of his living at yours can be kept in case there is an actual inspection . With this arrangement you will soon find out if he’s actually interested in the children or just controlling you.
He does not get to say what you do at any time or he leaves, end of. You need to be very clear which I know is difficult but to make a bully back down you need to be a bigger bully which is why I said get the help of a lawyer. He needs to know you are not going to tolerate his bad behaviour and back it up. In return he gets to be involved with his children and see them grow up.
Only talk to him about child related issues, nothing else. Visa when appropriate.

Is there an option 1b, where you live in a property with separate homes but one address? Eg two flats from one house.

Then you get to stay in your home country, you get to live on your own with a locked door between you, and the children keep their father in their lives.

Of course, it would need to be on the understanding that if he repeatedly comes into your home, option three will happen.

Option 3. You can’t live with him for another 3 years, you’ll be miserable. He barely parents anyway, so he can visit. You’re already on anti-depressants, presumably due to his horrible behaviour. At least if you kick him out, you’ll be a better, happier mum to your dc.

Option 3

Can you go to family therapy with him? And sit down with an outsider and work out a way to live together?
I mean really spell it out for him that if he continues to affect your mental health the way it is, then you’ll be forced to go for option 3 even though you don’t want to. So now it’s time to step up and not be a cunt or be forced to leave.

With a sort of mediator this might be a viable option. But of course if you think he’s abusive it’s never going to work. If he’s not then you really both need to come up with a strategy as I do think option 1 is best for the children

Option 3. If he is that dedicated a father he will find a way to get a visa in his own right.

Definitely NOT option 1 - do not let him manipulate and control you into dying that.
My advice would be option 3 - whatever you decide, best of luck.

doing that