To find "eco warriors" hypocrisy annoying

[LeVole]

Why do so many celebrities lecture on being environmentally friendly whilst they continue to drive massive cars, take private jets/helicopters, fly business class, just fly regularly in general. Its easy for them to buy "ethical fashion" and have their chefs prepare them vegan food (although I'm sure some of them don't even do that).

AIBU to think to myself whenever I see some celebrity spouting off about the environment "well I've given up flying by private jet so good for me, that's a massive cut to my carbon footprint".

I can't get worked up at Greta. She started off as a child, and most children see things very black and white. Unfortunately, her autism has prevented her from developing any nuance in her thinking.

I was shocked that the yacht stunt involved so much flying, but I imagine that was a compromise for her going at all. I imagine she dug her feet in and the less scruples around her came up with 'that solution' as she's a bit of a talisman.

The argument for veganism is just so flaky when it comes to the environment. Holes all over it - food miles, land clearances, soil quality, insect decimation. That's without any of the arguments about cost to healthcare over time because it is so unhealthy

I wish vegans would stick to the truth - they find it upsetting to kill animals. I can understand that argument but all this bullshit about the environment...give me a break.

The problem with that argument is that most scientists are now pushing plant based as the change we need to make. It's mostly not vegans making the environmental argument.

But yes, I am vegan because killing unnecessarily is wrong, imo. But funny enough, I get more aggression for that reason than the environment. Go figure.

It's also not the killing that 'upsets' most vegans by the way. The conditions, abuse of mothers, ending lives when animals are still infancy are bigger factors for most people.

I would say that not all scientists are pushing veganism - there are many who are not. Granted, they are not given the press, but they are still there with their studies.

I agree that it is not just the killing btw, it is the conditions. I share those concerns as a meat eater btw. It upsets me to see badly treated animals, there is no excuse for it and to be fair to the UK, we treat our animals better than most places. But still, I would like to see the end to battery farmed chickens.

I actually get very upset by land clearances for vegan products like soy.

I get upset by the decimation of insects for the growing of 'plant products'

There is no perfect solution

YANBU at all.

It used to be the cars and helicopters that conspicuously displayed their status, now it’s their beliefs and values.

It’s just about engaging in a high status activity and it’s a way of being controlling - an endless list of things they want to ban for other people.

It has nothing to do with climate change for some of them. Nothing at all.

The UK were leading in animal welfare in the 90s, but not so much now. Only 1% of animals are raised organically and that's usually what people would like in terms of life quality.
Mega farms (UK) and factory farms(us) won't go until demand for meat goes down. That means individuals reducing ( like the op) Note the op is taking a positive individual action to help climate change rather than lying in the road. I have to respect that.

I actually get very upset by land clearances for vegan products like soy.
The destination of most soy is for animal feed.

@Foxtailstump

Completely agree. It extends to people I know in real life who preach environmental issues then own two Range Rovers and fly 4 times a year.

Yep.

I've got a neighbour who is always on FB preaching about environmental issues, how to reduce our carbon footprint etc.

She and her husband own 2 houses and are always driving between the 2. Pre Covid they also had several foreign holidays a year which they flew to. Their children don't go to the local school, they go to a private school 12 miles away which means she does 48 miles of driving every school day to transport them to school whereas the rest of the local kids go by school bus to the local comp. It's really irritating to then have her post stuff about "saving the planet".

"luxury beliefs" are a form of status setting these days

"In the past, people displayed their membership of the upper class with their material accoutrements. But today, luxury goods are more affordable than before. And people are less likely to receive validation for the material items they display. This is a problem for the affluent, who still want to broadcast their high social position. But they have come up with a clever solution. The affluent have decoupled social status from goods, and re-attached it to beliefs."

quillette.com/2019/11/16/thorstein-veblens-theory-of-the-leisure-class-a-status-update/

It's sickening - as it has no impact on them at all to say these things, as usual, it is the lower classes who suffer

I get upset by the decimation of insects for the growing of 'plant products'
Vegans aren't the only people who eat plants you know.

@BelleOfTheProvince We could argue all day about the pros and cons of veganism. I am sure we both know the pitches for either side.

@hamstersarse We are in total agreement there.

The test of whether their beliefs are genuine is easy. Simply suggest a solution based on capitalism and see how they react. Do they (a) say yes, it’s an emergency, we need to do whatever works using whatever we have now or do they (b) say that the problem requires the dismantling of capitalism entirely.

Imagine we’re in an emergency - an asteroid is coming towards Earth.

Do we

(A) Use whatever we have right now to try and destroy it or point it somewhere else,

Or

(B) Decide now would be a good time to rethink the entire field of theoretical physics.

If we choose B, it’s not really an emergency is it, or it is and we’re probably going to die from stupid.

@Bancha Most leather is not a byproduct of meat, and higher quality vegan leather is increasingly not made from plastic, but plant-based and biodegradable.

[quote hamstersarse]@BelleOfTheProvince We could argue all day about the pros and cons of veganism. I am sure we both know the pitches for either side.[/quote]
Nobody is going to force anyone to go vegan, but it's simple fact that a plant-based diet (with some oily fish at older ages if not basing one's choice on ethical reasons) gives the greatest longevity and best health outcomes.

Similarly, the arguments about things like land clearance and growing soy are whataboutism. There isn't a good argument against veganism for relatively wealthy people (i.e. in a Western country, not in a food desert). But of course that doesn't mean everyone is actually going to switch and be vegan! No reason to be dishonest about it, though. It's a choice to eat meat and dairy.

[quote hamstersarse]@BelleOfTheProvince We could argue all day about the pros and cons of veganism. I am sure we both know the pitches for either side.[/quote]
Which would be fine, if people didn't love to point out the hypocrisy in veganism, whilst conveniently ignoring the damage in their own approach.

Mostly, people just like to bash vegans. Who, for the most part are not the absolutel hypocrites driving 4x4s and holding up traffic because they like the festival vibe.

It's annoying getting lumped together with idiots. Their motivations are entirely different, as are their actions.

Similarly, the arguments about things like land clearance and growing soy are whataboutism. There isn't a good argument against veganism for relatively wealthy people (i.e. in a Western country, not in a food desert). But of course that doesn't mean everyone is actually going to switch and be vegan! No reason to be dishonest about it, though. It's a choice to eat meat and dairy.

Well said.

@hamstersarse

I actually get very upset by land clearances for vegan products like soy.

I get upset by the decimation of insects for the growing of 'plant products'

There is no perfect solution

75-80% of soy bean production is for animal feed. Of the rest 2/3 is used for the production of soy oil which is partly used as a biofuel. So people eating a bit of tofu or drinking soya milk are not causing rainforest destruction with those choices. Most soya I eat comes from Europe or organic farms elsewhere in the world. wwf.panda.org/discover/our_focus/food_practice/sustainable_production/soy/

@DdraigGoch

Are you thinking of Ginge and Whinge in particular?

Well, now that you mention them........ MN can get filled up with H&M threads, (so I'm sorry about mentioning them again), but I have to say I was livid when I read that they'd made their recent return trip from California to New York by private jet......to attend a climate change event! This was the latest of many such flights. H can justify it all he wants by saying it's for the security of his family, (except this trip was just him and M). But this is just excusing absolute rank hypocrisy, and I can't get past that.

Ah see I get my soy by flying to Brazil in my private jet and stealing cows' food.

@Innocenta

That’s set me straight then! I stand corrected.