Manipulative, lying psychopathic ex has stopped maintenance- I know I’m not being unreasonable, but words of wisdom are needed and a plan…

[Builderscrack]

Will try to keep this short as otherwise I’ll never stop…

I left when our daughter was 18 months old (she’s now 10)- he’s not seen her at all since she was 3. Has never made any effort whatsoever to keep in touch with her or communicate- just doesn’t care.

He was however paying some maintenance (nowhere near the right amount, but I took the simpler option of not engaging with him as he’s infuriatingly unpleasant, unreasonable and untruthful).

In Feb this year I finally decided to go through the CMS (there are no words to describe what a joke they are). Well- despite earning upwards of £100 grand, and having a very solid-looking LinkedIn profile showing up-to-date employment- they wrote back saying that as he ‘earns less than £7 a week’……… he qualifies for the nil payment criteria.

Nil.

He had been paying £250 a month- so nowhere near what he should have been paying, still. But now- nothing.

He took them at their word and stopped paying altogether. Despite the fact that prior to their “assessment “, he’d managed to ‘scrape together’ 250 a month.

I have no savings and don’t earn a huge amount by anyone’s standards. I live in a small flat with my daughter.

He has yet another child (plus two others who are older), clearly earns a lot and yet this is what the CMS have come up with.

He was always a compulsive liar. But I didn’t think that even he was capable of pulling this.

Today I phoned the company on LinkedIn where he is apparently some kind of director (it says Oct 2020- present).

I’ve tried to be as objective as possible, but I am convinced the woman I spoke to sounded shifty when she said he’d ‘left the office’. Is that what people say instead of ‘he no longer works for us’? I was confused at first thinking she meant he’d just popped out. It was only when pressed that she said he didn’t work there any more and had no clue whether or not he was working now.

I’m fully aware I can’t expect anyone at work to divulge personal details and I very openly told her that I was trying to appeal to her as a woman who might have some empathy with my situation. Not for a second did I think I was being reasonable or that she’d tell me anything - but I hoped, and acted out of desperation.

The CMS have been beyond useless. If it wasn’t for them, he’d still be paying.

If it wasn’t for him being amoral, he’d still be paying.

I won’t even get onto the emotional damage his lack of interest has had on my daughter.

As a final note (it’s for another thread, and I don’t have the energy) she’s been desperate to connect with him. She- as a 10 year old (and as an 8 year old a week before her 9th birthday last year) took the strength and courage to reach out and phone him- the only two times she’s had anything to do with him since she was 3- and all he’s done since is ignore her existence.

He’s never even sent a birthday card , nor even acknowledged her birthdays at all. Not even her 9th- when she’s spoken to him on the phone a week beforehand and talked about her birthday.

I have of course (though not for the last couple of years) tried and tried and tried to get him to see her.

As I said, it’s for another thread and I don’t want to rant (any more!). All I want to do is remove him from my consciousness, and from my daughter’s. But I can’t- and regardless- why does he get to choose to pay nothing for her just because he wants to pretend we never happened?

My question really is- does anyone have any advice as to how I handle this? I can be too laid back and just accept things as they are- but HOW DARE he do this? Not only do I need this money- he is obliged to pay it.

Do I email him directly? (I haven’t done since he stopped paying which I know many will think is ridiculous). It all just feels so overwhelming.

I suspect his current wife has been given a very creative version of events, if she even knows anything at all. They live a few hours away.

Final note - he was an emotionally (becoming physically) abusive psychopath and I left him in fear of bringing my daughter up around that. My crime is to have seen through him, and to have left him. His bitterness never subsided.

Final note - he was an emotionally (becoming physically) abusive psychopath and I left him in fear of bringing my daughter up around that. My crime is to have seen through him, and to have left him it sounds like you're best not having him in your daughter's life. I'm sorry he is a shit.

What are the CMS actually about? Whoever runs that should be ashamed of themselves- it’s unknown to ever hear anyone being positive about them. Sorry unhelpful comment but they are just inept.

Not only do I need this money- he is obliged to pay it

According to the CMS he isn’t obliged to pay. Honestly they are the most unfit service. I have no idea how the non residential parent in this country gets to just tag out of their financial obligations.

I wish we would adopt the US system and lock men up who do not pay. It’s one thing they really get right in the states.

Men do this all the time. No doubt he has presented himself to the CMS as self-employed, and has made up some dodgy documents to show how little he earns. Happens all the time.

If he is as horrible as you say, I'd be actively avoiding any contact , and also not encouraging DD to contact him. Heartbreak is the only outcome - don't do it. Good luck.

No doubt he has presented himself to the CMS as self-employed, and has made up some dodgy documents to show how little he earns. Happens all the time.

Yep. It's quite easy as a 'director' to funnel money elsewhere to make your cash income look small/non existent.

Really if you'd posted here about him before going to CMS, personally I would have advised you not to rock the boat as you could end up here. Unhelpful now I know.

You say he lives a few hours away. Possibly you could play the long game of trying to build evidence that he is in fact working? May or may not be possible. Years ago I knew a single mum who had a self employed ex (taxi driver) who said he couldn't pay as he was too ill to drive... she periodically drove up and secretly took photos of his cab mileometer to prove he was in fact working...

Sorry for my many ‘final notes’, not to mention the very long ‘short’ post!

Thanks all for your replies. Absolutely, we are best off without him in our lives, you are right @GloomAndDoom . It just makes me sick to my stomach that he (and so many other men) can so easily breeze out of their own children’s lives without a care in the world.

@Confiscatedpopit and @Username7521 - I know, the CMS is run by utter incompetent clowns. It’s surely harder to fuck it up like they do than to get it right?!! It’s been 6 months or more now since he opted out of paying, and when I phoned the cms about their decision I asked do they just ask him if he’s working, he says ‘no’ and they say ok thank you sir, have a nice day. Seems to be it.
@user1471462428 I only recently read on mumsnet something about the American system- seems they are much more clued up. It’s disgusting how easily these scumbags can get away with it.

@Sparklfairy - brilliant. It has crossed my mind. He has certainly set himself up as a self employed photographer (sorry, too much information- I’d use up 40 pages on my OP alone if I wrote even half of what there is to say about him 🙄). So I mean, he’s got a working website with his name and contact details on it, for a start!

When we were together (near the end) I recall him telling me (out loud!!!) a plan he was hatching to screw his ex wife out of maintenance, and it was something like what you’ve described.

So yes- that’ll be it. But how or why the CMS don’t dig deeper is beyond me- this is their sole purpose after all.

@starrynight21 you are right. In her second (and last) conversation with him a month or so ago, she ended up hanging up on him. She is perceptive- she’s the one who (again) pushed for contact, and they were struggling for conversation. He kept asking really mundane questions and she got upset that he didn’t seem to really want to know anything about her as a person- and also that he wasn’t giving her anything about himself.
She kept asking him to tell her everything about himself and he was very guarded (can’t think why). This frustrated and upset her. She also (totally unprompted by me but I know he’d think I set her up to it!) asked him if he worked (I’ve obviously told her nothing about this)- he said no. Lol.

The thing is if you had posted on here you would have been told to go to cms, It happens on every post so I’m not sure I believe that people would have told you not to, I’ve never seen a post where people have told them not to it’s all “yeh go to child maintenance service” well they aren’t always great, my ex gets cash in hand but child maintenance ordered him to pay £7 a week for our 4 children 😒

You have exactly the same issue as me.
Cms came back saying he earns less than 7 pounds a week.
I then sent in all the evidence that I could find from Facebook all social.media platforms and asked for an investigation to be done.
I asked for a diversion of income investigation incase he is putting his income through his wife's account.
The case is ongoing and he is being investigated.
They will go through all the credit agencies banks companies house etc etc to find the money.
My ex earns over £2,000 a week and still managed to find a dodgy accountant and solicitor to hide his money for him.
It is unreal.
Ask the cms to look into the case again. Write a complaint to them. And get them to investigate. Go on companies House type his name in, you can see what companies he owns as a director and how much they are worth in the balance sheet accounts. I wish you all the best xx

I've been on the other side when they were CSA. 20 odd years ago they decided that DH had to pay £350 a month. They calculated while he was on SSP and a new job. To put that in perspective rent was £325. Couldn't appeal, they weren't interested - would have to take them to court and we couldn't afford that. He was already paying £40 a week (the amount was on advice from his solicitor) and with that could afford treats, pay for school trips, new coat or shoes etc on top and DSD always came first - always. It crippled us financially and couldn't do the nice stuff we wanted to with her. So either way looks like they're still not fit for purpose.

Morally, I don't know how the non-resident parent can sleep at night. They've not won - they're just depriving their children, it's disgusting.

I have of course (though not for the last couple of years) tried and tried and tried to get him to see her.

Does she have any contact with any of her half-siblings specifically the older ones? If she has contact and he's pissed off the older ones but they still know what he's up to, they may give her useful information.

It’s appalling. I’d try and found out if he is employed or not. Receptionist may have been told to be shifty by him if cms have called. Is he part of any professional body you could double check with.

Can you get someone else to call, what sort of business is it? Shifty receptionist could be a fake business so unlikely to actually field calls, could be his wife maybe?

Fake sales calls are very annoying I hear.

@SickOfTheEx

You have exactly the same issue as me. Cms came back saying he earns less than 7 pounds a week. I then sent in all the evidence that I could find from Facebook all social.media platforms and asked for an investigation to be done. I asked for a diversion of income investigation incase he is putting his income through his wife's account. The case is ongoing and he is being investigated. They will go through all the credit agencies banks companies house etc etc to find the money. My ex earns over £2,000 a week and still managed to find a dodgy accountant and solicitor to hide his money for him. It is unreal. Ask the cms to look into the case again. Write a complaint to them. And get them to investigate. Go on companies House type his name in, you can see what companies he owns as a director and how much they are worth in the balance sheet accounts. I wish you all the best xx

Agreed. My ex is under investigation (I pushed for it) by CMS fraud team. It's amazing what they can access in terms of credit files, bank accounts etc etc. It takes time (months and months) but I couldn't just sit back knowing he is syphoning huge amounts of income off his 'official' income to avoid paying. He also puts in fraudulent claims of excessive travel expenses for contact on an annual basis which have so far been rejected by CMS.

Any chance you could get an email for him and email him a fake business idea from a fake account.. see if it bounces or if he replies ?

If he's hiding his money from CMS he must also be hiding it from HMRC. They may be more interested in investigating his affairs.

@Tirediam

Any chance you could get an email for him and email him a fake business idea from a fake account.. see if it bounces or if he replies ?

Yes... I'd doing this pronto... Assemble as much info /evidence you have to his utter fraudulent behaviour...

Can you get your local MP fired up about this?

@MiddlesexGirl

If he's hiding his money from CMS he must also be hiding it from HMRC. They may be more interested in investigating his affairs.

I'm told that once CMS uncover hidden money they inform HMRC who will them pursue fir tax evasion. So my ex will get double trouble but seems to think he will get away with it. He will likely go bankrupt again at that point

To be fair @TurnUpTurnip, I did ask on here about it (under a different username I think) and there was varying advice. I did actually say to my (recent) ex that he was bound to manipulate the situation, but he (recent ex - ex for a lot of good reasons but that’s another story!) said there’s no way he could hide from the CMS. My gut was right, on both accounts! Sorry your ex is also an immoral twat.

Brilliant, @MiddlesexGirl and @therebeccariots. I fully intend to go down that route. Surely karma has to strike at SOME point?! It’s been a long time coming.

Loving your thinking @3scape. I’m dreaming up annoying calls as I type… good idea too @Tirediam. At the very least he has to be looking over his shoulder all the time, which i’d like to think can’t be a very nice feeling. Poor little love.

Have previously considered local Mp @IamtheDevilsAvocado. I’m on a mission now and will draft something tonight.

If he's a company director have you looked him and his company up on companies House? You can get all sorts of info on there.

He’s in marketing. So used to embellishing the truth;) (no offence to any nice mn marketeers)
I thought I’d be alone in suspecting that he’s got people to cover for him but reassuring that it’s not just me.

I really hope you're right @therebeccariots. Tax dodgers and maintenance avoiders are both scum and I hope he gets penalised to the max.