Phoned 111 last night for a broken wrist and was told to see GP

[whenwillthemadnessend]

Seriously!!!

I wasn't worried before about the NHS as my docs were getting back to normal but I really am now

111 too busy. Told to try see GP on a Friday night at 5.30 if I'm mistaken gps don't have X-ray even if they were open.
Son with school football injury

It was broken. I ignored them and went to a&e

God help anyone that is seriously ill.

@KingsleyShacklebolt

We are being told in Scotland that A&E is for life-threatening emergencies. Serious injury, stroke, heart attack. Broken wrists - however painful - do not fall into that category. So you are asked to go to a minor injuries unit.

Minor injuries no not take walk-ins, you have to be referred by 111. So you can't walk-in to the walk-in clinic.

Yes they do take walk ins. I took my nephew to the minor injuries unit as a walk in and he was seen ok

No, @BoredZelda , people are not wrong about the need to call 111 before going to A&E in some areas.

There's a service behind it call 'NHS 111 First'

www.healthwatch.co.uk/advice-and-information/2020-11-30/think-you-need-go-ae-call-nhs-111-first

Yes, you can still walk into A&E without it but if you don't call first you're quite likely to be turned away and referred elsewhere, if not life threatening.

Think 111 first is a national mandate, this is not a choice various hospitals have made. How it is being implemented is clearly varied given the accounts above.

In principle it is a good idea, approximately more than half of the daily attendances in the department I work in could have been seen/managed in a different setting. Think 111 first tries to address this by signposting elsewhere, it also acknowledges that people will arrive at ED regardless hence asking them to contact 111 pre triage to stream to a possibly more appropriate setting.

What has always concerned me is how each Trust has been able to interpret and deliver the service leading to the inconsistency seen above - some ED’s not allowing anyone in without a 111 triage, whereas others you can just walk in.

There has be a clinical/critical judgement of the patient made by the initial health care professional before asking to use 111 in order to capture sick pts who need urgent care.

Of course there is no more money to support the resources required to deliver this service effectively and efficiently. If there was then this may well work, one thing is for sure though, something has to change ED’s are breaking and cannot manage current demand, people need to be able to access healthcare in a different way.

Although looks like the website has been updated for Scotland. They have had warnings in NHS Lanarkshire about the pressure they've been under

Doesn't A&E stand for Accident and Emergency? Injuring a wrist in an accident surely comes under the A bit.

I haven’t used 111 for years. Not since they advised me to rub canesten cream on my nipples because I thought my baby had oral thrush. They said the cream would go into his mouth when he was feeding. I didn’t do it.

[quote TheUndoingProject]Of course it’s true that people in many areas are advised to contact 111 before going to A&E if it’s non-life threatening. Some posters are so bloody rude.

www.nhsinform.scot/campaigns/right-care-right-place[/quote]
Over 16 years ago, I rushed my 5 day old baby to A&E as she kept temporarily stopping breathing. I was admonished for not calling NHS 24 first, so they had a record! I was then told they didn't know if they could see her as she wasn't yet registered with a GP. She was 5 days old, we left maternity on the Friday evening and this was Sunday. Luckily, due to being keen and excited first time parents, my husband had registered her birth the day after she was born, so they reluctantly said they could see her. 🙄

@dementedpixie - also Scotland and my local minor injuries requires a phone call first. if you turn up on their door step they won't let you in until you have phoned 111 first... couple of scary stories already of people taking really unwell in the car park while on hold to 111 and off-duty nurses having to step in, etc.

The rules have changed

My son broke his arm yesterday I went to A&E straight away and was told they don't accept walk in appointments.

I then phoned 111 whilst waiting outside in the rain with a child in pain.

Then 111 told me they will phone me back within the hour!

Then I had to go through the whole thing again 30 min later whilst they put a referral through to the A&E i was waiting outside of!

@whenwillthemadnessend did exactly the right thing as per current guidance. Locally one of our A&Es will send you outside to call 111 if you just rock up with anything that doesn't count as a life-threatening emergency.

The communication about all this is terrible, and the hospitals themselves are rubbish too - people 'booking' with 111 then turning up and having to wait anyway, hospitals turning away genuine emergencies like the terrible story PP told above.

@Confusednewmum1

In Glasgow the A&E facility is woe full, we tried an ambulance as my dad had a bad break to his leg and foot. Lives up several flights of stairs ect. Told no ambulance not an emergency, said we would arrange neighbours ect to help lift and bring him to A&E and advised not welcome in A&E unless life threatening…………… Advised to call 111 as they have other resources!!!! Explained complex medical history 3 strokes in 9 months diffuse swelling and really concerned….. advised I could call back if he had a stroke. Waited 3 hours for 111 to be told to take him to hospital. Carried down flights of stairs in a dining chair. Unable to move into car due to pain vomiting ect. Put in the back of a transit van still sitting on dining room chair to go to hospital. 17 hours before he seen a doctor!! Triaged after 2.5 hours and sent for X-ray then back to the waiting room but targets will be met as seen in under 4 hours. No painkillers ect! Awful over 24 hours total in a waiting room - 3 further set of X-rays as not right after 17 wait. No food drink or blanket provided despite asking!! 25 McFlurry’s in the staff room though seemed to be the chat of the day!

I'm very sorry about your Dad, it sounds horrific and I would encourage you to make a complaint. However I think it's disgusting to badmouth staff for having the audacity to take a break. They are entitled to take a break during their 12/13 hour shifts and they can eat what they like on their break, whether it be a McFlurry or a bloody salad.

@Purplewithred

The communication about all this is terrible

Yes. When my teen badly hurt her wrist about two months back, i called 111 for advice. Their phone line said they were extremely busy, so if it was office hours to call the GP surgery. I did, spoke to someone there who said to take her to Minor Injuries. I asked if we needed an appointment, she said no, just walk ins are fine. We got there and were told that advice is incorrect and they need to make appointments. Fortunately, they weren't busy, so were able to see her without us going home and arranging an appointment to come back.

If health professionals are giving incorrect advice, it's no wonder we laypeople can get it wrong.

@BabbleBee

GPs can make direct referrals for x-rays so the advice wasn’t incorrect.

Yes, they can, however they can only refer to the standard service here which is 8-4 Monday to Friday. And you have to get a GP app first.

Minor injuries offers x-ray facilities but again only during the day.

Yes I turned up at A&E after calling 111 in the car journey all the way there and the lines were so busy, they were just ringing and ringing with an automated message.

When I arrived, there was someone on the door outside who asked did I have an appointment. They did let me in as I had a child with a bleeding head injury but I was given a card with numbers and the procedure and told next time I had to have an appointment .

@BoredZelda I wanted to apologise for the tone of my reply last night. I'm really concerned for my sister and ended up taking it out in my reply to you. Hopefully you realised my anger is not with you but with the system that prevents people from accessing medical care in an emergency, but just in case you thought otherwise, I'm sorry.

Oh I had something similar. I rang to check where would be best to take my 1yo for a suspected broken leg and said she’d be fine with self care at home. I said they were wrong and would be off to A&E. they told me I was wasting my time. I’m sure they used the wrong algorithm. I got a phone call from the nurse later apologising and making sure I had gone.

My local hospital triages A+E and urgent care (what used to be called the walk-in) via the same reception desk/initial waiting area. You get booked in, someone comes to triage and either tells you to wait there for A+E or go across the hospital to wait for urgent care. A prior call to 111 is encouraged but not required. That's an ideal system imo.

You could not get a wrist-break diagnosed x-rayed and set on the phone by 111 so A and E was the first port of call, where you should have gone straight away. That's exactly what it's for.

I called 111 when my miscarriage started 3 days before my booked surgical intervention, as I’d ended up in hospital with the previous one when I haemorrhaged. They gave me the number for the delivery ward at a hospital which is not the nearest one to me, but a dr there was really nice and told me to ring them back if it got bad. Tried calling 111 again when I started passing clots, but the estimated time for someone to even answer the phone was 55 minutes, so I ended up going straight to A&E. There was a queue of people waiting to be checked in, and in the 40 mins from setting off from home until I managed to get anyone’s attention I had not just soaked through a seriously heavy duty pad but also my jeans as far down as my knees and the blood was dripping on the floor. Nobody argued about me not having an appointment, although I could see there were signs saying you should do that if you could, they took all my details, got me whisked through into a bay, then into resus for a drip and a blood transfusion, and eventually into emergency surgery as I’d lost over a litre of blood and they couldn’t get it to stop.
My previous miscarriage at Easter, I was at my parents, so different hospital, but my dad drove me in as I’d got to the point of filling a pad nearly every half hour. They had a nurse on the door checking people actually needed to be there and recommending alternatives where appropriate. I was let in to wait, but very quickly after I went to ask for something to sit on as I’d started to leak through my jeans they brought me into a private room and got me triaged. Ended up staying in for 2 nights that time but no surgery required.
@Becca19962014 I’m so sorry your sister had the experience she did, I can’t even imagine how awful that must have been. I already knew both times from early scans (IVF) that my babies had died and that was bad enough. Can’t even fathom the thinking behind not letting a woman going through that in to at least be seen.

Apologies, that did have paragraphs when I typed it! 🤦‍♀️

Doesn't A&E stand for Accident and Emergency? Injuring a wrist in an accident surely comes under the A bit.

Yes it does. Which is why most are now known as the Emergency Department (ED).

@pinkcarnations

We have Urgent care centres in this area (midlands), I think they used to be called walk-in centres. They have x-ray facilities and are a great alternative to a&e especially for children. I'm surprised 111 didn't suggest this unless of course they aren't uk wide.

Midlands here. My local, albeit small, hospital in town has xray and a walk in centre for the minor stuff, which might include fractures. Major stuff you're expected to call 999 for.

Some areas do vary though. We’ve got some urgent care centres near us that can deal with breaks with a shorter wait but don’t take children.

I’ve also found that 111 or a gp visit can make things easier as they can often admit straight onto the paediatric assessment ward rather than being stuck in A&E. my youngest was a bit of a frequent flyer so feel like I’ve got all of our local procedures sorted now but it isn’t always clear the first time you do it.

Oh yes, I empathise.
I slipped in a storm last month onto the concrete pavement. Wrist was deformed and query fractured vertebrae. I could not get up. The ambulance service was dire, after three calls a clinician eventually called back and dispatched an ambulance. Meanwhile they had repeatedly refused to log the call because I could not tell them which was the worst injury and they hurt equally. One man even told me I could take paracetamol in ibuprofen but needed to get advice from a pharmacist first. I couldn't get up and when I told him that was told if I had a smart phone I could Google and phone them. I was on the pavement in the rain for two hours. Crew gave me morphine and took me to the nearest A&E which has no orthopaedic dept.

Waited for 6 hours, hearing staff being unbelievably rude to the public. Eventually a very junior Dr dismissed my fears about my back and refused initially a back XRay. Had really to be assertive. It transpired they only XRayed the lumbar spine, not the thoracic spine which is where the problem is.

Wrist was badly broken but no surgical ortho reg to review. Under sedation they tried to reduce it which was never going to work so a complete waste of time.

Staff in A&E were rude and thoroughly horrid against a background of shambolic organisation. We heard them shout at people a number of times. 12 hours later we went home. After a procedure under sedation, I wasn't offered so much as a glass of water. When we got to cubicles there were more staff than patients and I was the only person in Resus. I don't understand why XRays couldn't have been taken during the six hours we waited.

On the Monday I was called by an ortho regarding to say pins and plates were needed. I do not understand why they tried to reduce it or why I was not taken to a hospital with ortho presence 24/7. The organisation is inefficient and wasteful.

I has surgery on the Wednesday.

The NHS is a disgrace and has been failing for years. When I had a miscarriage at 12 weeks I sufferer a major hemorrhage, was told on Friday I wasn't allowed a scan when I started bleeding, was shouted at by a nurse who told me I was on my period! By Sunday I had lost 5 pints of blood in 45 minutes. Waited over an hour for an ambulance, got to A&E and was put in a hallway with a man with meningitis. Eventually was put in a side room where I was left for 6 hours bleeding all over the bed on the floor everywhere. Then a nurse came in and demanded to know why I was there and said in complete shock that I was supposed to be transferred to a ward 6 hours before to see a Dr. Eventually I was taken to a women's ward where my drip was dry and forcing my blood out of my vein into the bag. I was put in a corner bed and the curtain drawn where I was left completely alone all night I had to crawl out of bed in blood soaked clothes to beg them to remove the dry drip. Was told no and sent back to bed. Was in there for 2 days until I got a scan and finally had the drip removed. Literally the only information I was given was "seek medical help if you flood through 6 pads in an hour " six pads in an hour. I self discharged as I was told the Dr was too busy to see me. I just left and took weeks to recover physically at home. Don't think I've ever really mentally recovered.