To think the NHS isn’t fit for purpose?

[BrendaBubbles]

There’s a story on Mail Online right now about a woman with breathing difficulties who was left on hold for hours with her GP who died during the call. There have been a lot of stories recently about people with cancer that wasn’t picked up due to resource limits and a DH of a friend of mine has been told there is a six month waiting list for an MRI.

I know the people in the NHS are true gold but despite record amounts of money the service is getting worse. It was also in the news earlier that the number of people seen at A&E within four hours was 95% in 2010 and has fallen to 67% now and I’m sure we’ve all felt this when we’ve attended ourselves.

It’s clearly not just about money but is the NHS even fit for purpose now when people are dying through simple negligence and lack of reasonable diagnosis and in person access to GPs?

@FangsForTheMemory

The government has been defunding the NHS for a decade in order to get people like YOU to think it is not fit for purpose so that when they sell it off - which they are doing, bit by bit - there will be no outcry.

Every time I see a thread like this started, I assume the OP is a Tory shill. If you're not, don't play into their hands.

Needs quoting and re-quoting.

There must be about 8 threads going at the moment, all coming to the same conclusion: our political system is completely broken. Until that's fixed, nothing good will happen with our public sector.

So can I ask everybody talking about underfunding how throwing more money into the pot would specifically stop situations such as mine?
Excluding doctors and A&E nurses actually treating the patients, there were seven staff in A&E. There were around 10 patients and about three in the queue (not allowed in until someone moves from reception).
So are people honestly saying that not one of those seven staff could be deployed to phone relatives when their family member was ready to go home?
It's very easy to throw up excuses about being too busy, and it being the NHS, no-one questions it. If this, was not the NHS, would seven people really be deployed managing admin for 13 people? And then have the audacity to say they were too busy to make a call? Come on!

Katyppp I think the thing is use see a snapshot of staffing in A and E and come to your own conclusions without really knowing what those staff were doing there. However it is possible to give your suggestions to the team if you think that some of their staff could be redeployed to ring relatives. Usually there is a feedback form.

It's shockingly funded and I believe that their current waiting lists will cause a lot of unnecessary deaths. I personally know of 2 people who have died of cancer that could have been treated If it was dealt with in a timely way with follow ups.

I personally have endometriosis which is not life threatening but causes huge amounts of pain and can lead to incapacity and depression if not treated.
I was placed on a waiting list in May 2019 for urgent surgery. By February 2020 I was in excruciating pain, my bowel and bladder had also become blocked which can be life threatening. So i went privately to have surgery.
Several months after the surgery my endometriosis had returned with a vengeance and I was told I was still on the waiting list from May 2019.
It's now been 28 months and I'm
Not holding my breath! I have had a scan and they can clearly see it's all returned as well as a load more fibroids and cysts.
I'm in daily pain and barely eating as it hurts so much and despite being told that the scan showed it's all returned my GP still keeps fobbing me off with paracetamol and 14 stronger pain killers a month!

I had fantastic service from the NHS recently, went in early hours of Sunday morning to A&E where it was full of police officers and idiot men who'd decided to get drunk and punch things (there were at least 6 sets of 2 police officers and man wrapped in foil blanket with bloody hand). Despite this I was triaged within an hour and given pain medication which stopped me vomiting constantly and allowed me to be properly assessed. I was scanned and they found a massive gallstone and I was then moved to a different hospital for ongoing treatment.

I ended up being admitted for 5 days for treatment including emergency surgery.

Yes it would have been nicer if I could have had visitors and if the little shop was open so I could buy basics like shampoo but I can appreciate that with vivid they need to keep the number of people in the hospital to a minimum and reduce the possibilities of transmission.

The nurses and HCAs were as attentive as they could be given the demands on their time, and the doctors/surgeons were flying round the hospital at high speed trying to see as many people as possible in the shortest time.

The simple fact is that the NHS is over used, under funded at the treatment end and that the execs are overpaid and over staffed. They need to have a wholesale review of all the processes/policies and really work to balance that so that more funding is funnelled to the frontline.

I know the people in the NHS are true gold

That's not true. You've acknowledged a pattern of negligence by people, how can you possibly then justify saying they're "true gold" ?

It is the people in the NHS committing negligence resulting in death.

It is the people in the NHS abusing patients.

It is the people in the NHS who cover up these acts and crimes.

It is the people in the NHS who smear the victims and families of their abuse, negligence and other criminal conduct.

And the people in our wider society who collaborate in that corruption and abuse of power - people like you who defend them as being above the law and exempt from any expectation of human decency.

To describe the people of the NHS as "true gold" is grossly offensive and a downright lie. They are human beings. They fuck up, they fail, they lie, they are capable of abuse and arrogance, they protect their own self-interest, they bully, they ignore consent, they view patients as sub-human, they make mistakes, some commit deliberate harm.

Sure, some of them are also caring and hard-working but they are imperfect. Even well-intentioned people can cease to treat patients as humans.

Look at a thread of women's childbirth experiences and tell me every one of the staff required at every moment were "true gold" .

The evidence shows NHS staff are very very far from true gold although some of them have golden moments.

Putting them on a pedestal like gods stops us changing the problems and is the reason I was reading yesterday about more patients who were killed by an NHS trust that then launched a cover up. It was on the front page of the BBC. It is not the first case where the families have had enough power to bring it into the media and it won't be the last. There are many many more where the NHS power silences its victims and we don't hear about its abuse.

You dishonour those victims of the NHS with that statement.

All parties have now acknowledged (some with more reluctance than others) that the NHS is something the British people support and will not let go of.
All parties recognise that funding the NHS in its current form is unsustainable and it needs radical overhaul, whether that's restructuring, more money, or streamlining what services it offers.
If that's the case, the only way forward which avoids electoral suicide but actually provides a solution that I more than mere tinkering around the edges, is a cross-party working group who can agree a new way forward through consensus. Who knows, perhaps they could even consult the electorate on what they think the NHS should offer/look like..

An NHS that routinely kills and maims the very people it is supposed to protect then responds by covering it up and smearing its victims is something we should all condemn.

It is people who kill patients.
People who maim patients.
People who abuse, neglect and harm patients.
People who cover up the negligence.
People who blame the victims and their families.
People who attempt to cover it up.

And people whom we should hold accountable and condemn.

Thank you, ftw163532 for telling it as it actually is. I've experienced NHS negligence firsthand, and have a lifelong health problem as a result, and they nearly killed one of my relatives. Both instances were completely avoidable.

Great post.

I find, that the NHS is sometimes too shortsighted. My sister has a heart condition that could be hereditary and had a genetic test in our home country. They found the specific gene did indeed have the defect that is responsible for this condition.
Both my brother and I were told we should get tested for the condition as it could kill without any prior warning. It almost killed my sister and it is due to pure luck that she's still around.

My brother went to the genetic clinic my sister had gone to, was tested and given the all clear over two years ago.
I discussed it with my GP who referred me to genetic counselling. There I was told that they would not fund this test unless I had all the other tests first that could also tell me whether or not I have this condition. They cited the costs would be too high (I was told somewhere in the £1500 range).
I accepted this and was referred to cardiology, I was given an appointment for a 24 hour ECG, then a week later several other ECGs before seeing a consultant.
The 24 hour one went off well, the appointment a week later was then cancelled as it was at the start of the pandemic, I know this happened to many people.
Since then, I have had an MRI in July 2020 as well as the ECGs, which I had a year ago. After the ECGs I was told that the consultant would be contacting me by phone "soon".
No contact was made and I have since tried several times to get a response out of the hospital or asked them to just tell me the results of my ECG.
I was told that "everything was fine" and that there was nothing suggesting I had the disease - however, and they know this, my sister has the hidden type of this disease, which does not show up on ECGs.

I need one more test, where I am injected a drug and then have to do a treadmill ECG but the hospital are not running this clinic "due to the pandemic".

In the mean time, all the ECGs, blood tests, MRI etc. have probably totalled way more than £1500, but as it came out of a different budget, no one cares. So doing the genetic test, would have saved a lot of money.
Honestly, if I could afford to pay for the genetic test privately, I would do so, just to get some clarity. Until the, I just have to hope that if I do have this condition, it doesn't come knocking.

People will happily pay £100 a month for tv...

I don't have an issue with the nhs when you really need them, but I think GP care is terrible and has been for a long time. I think it needs a complete overhaul. There is very little time for minor health issues including mental health, diet, exercise, and these all affect your quality of life, which can cause bigger problems down the line.

I'd happily pay for health care, as long as it's on the free market and gets zero help from the government.

To those saying that NHS is underfunded, how much more funding does it need? It’s a black hole. No amount will ever be enough. The model just isn’t fit for 21st century.

Oh please stop with the underfunding nonsense. They’re going to be getting a separate bloody tax of 1 and half percent, an extra tens of billions of pounds per year but I can guarantee things won’t improve for patients, I’m sure they’ll create a load of non jobs.
The only times that I and my family have really needed health care they’ve been shit.

@Asdf12345

You get what you pay for, but few are willing to pay significantly more tax.

You mean are other people willing to pay more tax? It’s always other people. And by the way what is the correct amount and who should pay it?

@Theluggage15

Oh please stop with the underfunding nonsense. They’re going to be getting a separate bloody tax of 1 and half percent, an extra tens of billions of pounds per year but I can guarantee things won’t improve for patients, I’m sure they’ll create a load of non jobs. The only times that I and my family have really needed health care they’ve been shit.

Nope, I will not. The figures are clear. Budgets rose by 1.4 per cent each year on average (adjusting for inflation) in the 10 years between 2009/10 to 2018/19, compared to the 3.7 per cent average rises since the NHS was established. The NHS is underfunded and healthcare cost as % of GDP is higher in many other European countries.

I'd happily pay for health care, as long as it's on the free market and gets zero help from the government.

Free market as in private profit model? Expect higher prices then as some of your payment will be going to shareholders. I can see argument for alternative non profit insurance models such as Germany, France but private for profit healthcare I would never support.

I know the people in the NHS are true gold

Well some of them are. I'm sure, given the fact that the NHS is the UK's largest employer, some of them are arses, idiots or just not very nice people. Just as you find in any other organisation - majority are fine, there's always a couple of oddballs and people you wouldn't want to be stuck in the lift with.

I really don't think it's helpful to perpetuate the myth that everyone working for the NHS is a selfless angel.

Some of the payment maybe going to shareholders, but those same shareholders will hold spending to account and not allow the wasted money currently seen in the NHS.
As I have said a few times on this post, there is no way four people would be employed asking essentially the same questions within a 2-3 m area in the private sector.
Nor would there be (and this is my personal favorite and happened to me earlier this year) someone standing at the entrance to the vaccination centre saying : "Covid jab? This way!" under a massive sign saving exactly the same thing with an arrow pointing where to go! Nor would te private sector pay for three people to marshall a queue of 10, excluding the staff taking names and someone whose role seemed to entirely be asking people to roll up their sleeves.

Stuff this I am sick of NHS staff being to blame for everything. Don't worry though as we are all so awful you can man the NHS yourself. I have found a few jobs that pay the same for less responsibility yes less pension but I don't care anymore. I am a highly qualified band 6 and I can take no more.

You're not all so awful, as pp have been careful to point out.

You get shit people in every profession, and they give the hardworking decent remainder a bad name. Medical workers are no different in that respect.

Volunteers manned the vaccination sites in the roles of directing and supporting people.

Some people are professional moaners and love having a go at the nhs.

Please do ignore @Rupertpenrysmistress

For anyone with a genuine concern - please do go to pals, write to the service lead or chief exec. Incidents are not covered up and are investigated.

Sorry why ignore me? I know the actual facts as I live and breathe the NHS. I love my job as a senior nurse and the patients, but get sick of the narrative that NHS staff are bad. What have I said that means I should be ignored?

@Rupertpenrysmistress sorry I didn’t mean ignore you. I meant ignore the unpleasant posts. I’m sorry you’re upset.

I dread getting seriously ill or one of the DC's having an accident because the service just isn't there anymore. We've been waiting nearly a year for a hospital appointment for our DS. He's in pain and it's affecting his education and enjoyment of life so it's incredibly distressing. Unfortunately it's only going to get worse with thousands of homes being thrown up everywhere and no extra surgeries or hospitals to accommodate the increase in population.

Sorry my mistake. I am so used to people moaning at me, I misread your comment.