Does anyone know if you get multiple speeding tickets if you have travelled at least 14 times in a week down a road thinking it was a 30 not a 20 restriction?

[Mummytotwonow]

My poor friend travelled to Wales to help look after a friend after an operation and stayed for a week. She has just returned home and found a speeding ticket (she was travelling 26mph thinking it was 30mph road and the ticket says it was 20mph). She travelled along this road at least twice a day running errands for about a week. She is so so so worried she is going to get multiple speeding tickets with fines and points and lose her license. It says she will get up to 3 points and fine on the first ticket. I have have checked the name of the road online and it looks like it's a fixed camera. She is so worried. Does anyone know what happen in a case like this?

Thanks x

Looking on street view on Google maps there are numerous big painted 20 on the road and fairly regular 20 repeater signs. She can't have missed it being a 20 zone 14 times with that amount of signage.

You can argue that getting caught on the same stretch of road multiple times in a short time is a single offence, but not over several days and in different directions. 12 points isn't necessarily a ban, my OH clocked up 22 points (idiot) and kept their licence.

If they've got the dough then they need Mr Loophole or someone similar. A reason can always be found to hold on to the license with a bit of imagination.

I am sorry OP but if it's the road that comes up on Google Maps of that name in Cardiff then there is a stonking great 20 painted on the road and small 20 signs on virtually every lamppost, plus other traffic calming measures. Her best chance is that a human being has looked at her case and taken pity.

If it's the road in Cardiff it has repeaters and 20s painted on the road in places, so the speed limit not being clear is not likely to be a defence.

Wow OP people are giving your friend a hard time eh. Bet none of them have ever driven 6 miles above a speed limit 🤔🙄

My area recently changed the centre from 30 to 20 mph. I disagree with those saying it’s impossible to miss. Sure, they have painted 20 on the road where it used to say 30 and put up a 20 sign instead of the 30 sign, but if you’re stressed and expecting to see 30 it would be very easy to not notice the change. And I’m sure she did notice the speed camera, but if she assumed the limit was 30 and knew she was doing 26, seeing the camera means nothing.

Sorry this happened to your friend, I hope things go well for her. Mumsnet can’t help her unfortunately and you’ll only get nasty comments here.

@KarmaStar

They don't enforce the 20mph here.

Where's "here"?!

Looking at Google Maps, there was numerous markings on the road, as well a sign on a post. I don't know how someone could have driven that stretch of road 14 times and missed that.

Eeek yeah there are a lot of signs OP. I dont see anything that looks like a fixed speed camera however

@Skysblue

Wow OP people are giving your friend a hard time eh. Bet none of them have ever driven 6 miles above a speed limit 🤔🙄

My area recently changed the centre from 30 to 20 mph. I disagree with those saying it’s impossible to miss. Sure, they have painted 20 on the road where it used to say 30 and put up a 20 sign instead of the 30 sign, but if you’re stressed and expecting to see 30 it would be very easy to not notice the change. And I’m sure she did notice the speed camera, but if she assumed the limit was 30 and knew she was doing 26, seeing the camera means nothing.

Sorry this happened to your friend, I hope things go well for her. Mumsnet can’t help her unfortunately and you’ll only get nasty comments here.

I've been caught speeding myself more than once, and it's entirely my own fault. And if we get caught, we should take the consequences. As I said before, hopefully the friend will be offered a speed awareness course, because it sounds like she could learn a lot from one.

We should all try and drive within the law and at a safe speed for the conditions - cameras and speed limits aside, even 30 is probably too fast to be safe on that road, going by the Google maps images.

And being stressed is no excuse. If someone ran over your child because they weren't concentrating and going too fast for the conditions because they were stressed, would you be sympathetic about it?

I can see how it happened if she lives in an area that doesn't have 20mph zones though. You look for speed limit signs if you think you might be going too fast, or if you're expecting to see something telling you you can now go faster. If you're driving below the (in your mind) lowest possible speed limit on an urban road then you might tune out speed limit signs because in your mind they're not relevant to you - just as someone in a small hatchback tunes out Maximum Height/Weight signs.

That'll cut absolutely no ice with the magistrate though.

She has never been to this area before, was looking after two young children, helping her single parent friend recover from an operation as she doesn't have anyone else.

I understand this is a tough situation and it's easy to be distracted with small children but if she genuinely didn't see the signs 14 times then maybe she shouldn't be driving?

If she did what most other people who speed do- which is see the signs and chance it that's a different matter and she just has to deal with the consequences of the risk she took.

@cabbageking

I suggest an eye test may be appropriate.

I would expect road signs and road markings if it is a 20mph limit with additional humps, chicanes etc for a 20mph zone.

There’s none of that on our 20mph roads. Signage yes, but nothing else.

She could ask the place that issued the ticket what the position is and perhaps there is something that can be done in court under totting up rules?

It could mean though that she’d be best not to pay any of them and ask for her day in court for all so she can explain.

They may give her points but let her keep her licence. If she gets lots of tickets it may put her over the 12 and she would lose it.

A previous poster said that if you need your car for work you get to keep your licence. That’s not true as everyone would say that and get off! They can make exceptions, for example a single mum with three severely disabled kids who needed transport to hospital for kidney dialysis or something. Not ‘oh there’s not many buses round my way so I need a car’ type excuses.

Does the camera have a huge flash each time it goes off?

@saraclara

Some years ago, a local vicar was caught going over the speed limit limit at 1am, rushing to go to support a parishioner whose DH had just died.

He appealed it, it went to court, he still got fined.
He still got fined.

Good. Why on earth would he think that was a reasonable excuse to break the law?

OP, if your friend genuinely needs to drive to work, it’s very unlikely that this would lead to her being banned if she goes to magistrates court. I’ve read about people with far more points doing far worse things who have got off with just a big fine because they’d lose their job.

Check the signage. If it's not adequate, that would be grounds to appeal.

In our village, there are huge 20mph roundels painted in the road alongside the standard road signs to advise a change of speed limit, then smaller roundels every few hundred yards throughout the village. If there was just one sign and it was obscured by branches etc, she could have grounds for appeal.

Was it definitely a fixed camera and not just a mobile unit?

I just ask as I would find it hard to believe that someone would miss a fixed camera every time. They're usually quite obvious, sign-posted, and flash at you when they go off (perhaps not all, but the ones I've seen others set off have)

Extra bits of advice, speeding is a strict liability offence so it's very difficult to argue a 'reason' for speeding.

I used delaying tactics on an early Feb offence that meant it didn't get dealt with by the summary justice until the November. The points get added as from the day of the offence so I only ended up with active points for just over 2 years instead of the usual 3.

I'd encourage your friend to use delaying tactics. First to ask for all the pictures etc to help remember who the driver was, responding to that as late as possible, changing any date that comes through, claim she doesn't fully understand the proceedings etc. Eventually the summary Justice will get the hump and set a date anyway but it could help keep her on the road for a good few months yet

Sorry I haven't replied to all questions as I'm having a full on day with the kids.

Thank you so much for all the helpful advice and comments.

She said there definitely wasn't a flash, she honestly can't remember seeing a fixed camera but she may have done but thought it was a 30mph road so would have been under the limit.

I haven't got Google Earth so will try and have a look later.

She doesn't want her friend in Wales to know about it as that would make her friend feel really bad. That's why she hasn't asked her for any more info on the road.

For whatever reason, whether she was not paying enough attention at the time, she has made a terrible mistake and for sure in the future she won't make the mistake again. I feel really sorry for her as she never done it on purpose and isn't a "rule breaker".

I found myself in a road that cars aren’t allowed in for two periods on Mon - Fri. The whole area is sign-salad central, and I didn’t realise I was in it at the wrong time on the wrong day til I had no choice to drive out past the camera checkpoint (cameras at each end).

I was furious as I am fed up of the maze of road closures, LTNs etc, all with different signage.

But no demand for payment has arrived, 3 weeks later.

So your friend may get lucky.

There are four Ty Draw Roads in Wales: two in Cardiff, one in Swansea and one in Aberdare.

The one near St Davids college is obvious.

The one on the outskirts of Cardiff surrounded by trees is not obvious and I would think would be 30 without checking.

Aberdare also less obvious.

Swansea one looks like a 30 to me and I can't find any signs.

So unless pp's have checked all 4 and definitely know which one it is, I'd say folk are being harsh.

Waituntil she has all the ickets that might arrive then try appealing BUT be very carefu about what she says in her defence.

Whilstyou might get away with ''I didnt see the signage'' once is one thing
, 7 days running suggests she really isnt concentrating

Even on roads you know it can change

i take my dh to work sometimes ona sunday morning and the 20 zome was made larger between my visits and for some reason i didnt notice