Will the gas crisis herald a new era of green fuel.or not?

[malificent7]

Just been thinking that if fosdil fuels are going up in price will it incentivise governments to turn to green fuel. There used to be a solar panel initiative....what happened to that? Perhaps the silver lining to all this is that green fuel is the only viable option.
However obviously i'm worried about gas price rises and the effect on normal families.

@DGRossetti

What happened after the 1970s ? We've been here before.

Ah yes. The three day week. I remember it well. Still able to carry on working on the no power days with my hurricane lamp, manual typewriter, coat and hat. We just worked through it as well as we could. I worked for a local authority so no choice really.

Trouble is these days work places are entirely reliant on energy to power computers and machinery which makes it impossible.

The building I worked in was an old isolation hospital so it got quite spooky after dark with all the flickering shadows.

At home we just had sandwiches or heated up soup and baked beans on a camping stove. Read a lot of books by candlelight and the aforesaid hurricane lamp. It was quite peaceful actually because you couldn't do ironing, hoovering and the like.

We are just installing solar panels with a battery. They go on next week. This should mean we generate a large percentage of the electricity we use and they work even in shading. EON are currently doing three years interest free credit (or at least they were before the energy market went bonkers).

Well we're getting closer to nuclear fusion being a source of "unlimited" power. Until that comes along we're at the mercy of fossil fuels and nuclear fission power stations. Maybe shutting all the coal mines wasn't such a good idea, it's left us very vulnerable to the whims of the Russians.

So-called "renewable" energy is very unreliable, unless someone invents batteries capable of storing and reusing energy on a huge scale.

@HarrietsChariot

Well we're getting closer to nuclear fusion being a source of "unlimited" power. Until that comes along we're at the mercy of fossil fuels and nuclear fission power stations. Maybe shutting all the coal mines wasn't such a good idea, it's left us very vulnerable to the whims of the Russians.

So-called "renewable" energy is very unreliable, unless someone invents batteries capable of storing and reusing energy on a huge scale.

Very much agree with you on all of that but the problem is it’s been claimed for years that controlled contained fusion for domestic power generation is just around the corner but here we are in 2021, not quite there yet.

Based on the local opposition to a recent solar park on land around here I'd say not.

People care about going green until it affects the countryside view they thought they'd purchased.

Hopefully nuclear power is looked at again, the last nuclear station connected to the grid was in 1995, and all of our current nuclear stations are owned by EDF so effectively owned by the French state, 4 of the 7 currently active are due to be shut down in three years time.

I wish but I’m not optimistic.

@flowerycurtain

Based on the local opposition to a recent solar park on land around here I'd say not.

People care about going green until it affects the countryside view they thought they'd purchased.

Yes who cares about environmental degradation?

Tbh the land usage of renewables is horrible and not talked about enough. Far less land is used for fossil fuel or nuclear power plants. More efficient from a variety of considerations

I live close to the Rampion wind farm. There is a massive expansion plan for it so it covers the coastline from Brighton to Bognor. There is a lot of opposition to it as nimbys complain it will be a blight on the seascape. I don’t see what they are complaining for the view is nothing special to be blighted in any event.

Very much agree with you on all of that but the problem is it’s been claimed for years that controlled contained fusion for domestic power generation is just around the corner but here we are in 2021, not quite there yet.

It has been for at least 40 years - or as long as I've been following it.

@Proudboomer

I live close to the Rampion wind farm. There is a massive expansion plan for it so it covers the coastline from Brighton to Bognor. There is a lot of opposition to it as nimbys complain it will be a blight on the seascape. I don’t see what they are complaining for the view is nothing special to be blighted in any event.

Why not a natural gas facility? Would only blight a small part of the landscape.

But I’m biased. I truly loathe the sight of those hulking towers.

@Proudboomer

I live close to the Rampion wind farm. There is a massive expansion plan for it so it covers the coastline from Brighton to Bognor. There is a lot of opposition to it as nimbys complain it will be a blight on the seascape. I don’t see what they are complaining for the view is nothing special to be blighted in any event.

Same! I can't see the issue really!

@UsedUpUsername photovoltaics are much more sensitive than standard solar panels and work on overcast days as well. The addition of a battery means you store energy for later use. They're not the same as big standard solar panels used to heat water etc.

photovoltaics are much more sensitive than standard solar panels

A standard solar panel is an array of photovoltaic cells.

Stating the obvious but there are solar panels and there are solar panels and I sense perhaps some confusion creeping in.

There solar panels used to heat water which work by circulating a fluid through panels exposed to the sun and then subsequently through a heat exchanger (coil) in your hot water cylinder.

There are then the photovoltaic panels/cells which (via the magic of semi-conductors) convert sunlight directly to electricity.

[quote CandyLeBonBon]@UsedUpUsername photovoltaics are much more sensitive than standard solar panels and work on overcast days as well. The addition of a battery means you store energy for later use. They're not the same as big standard solar panels used to heat water etc. [/quote]
I can’t imagine those batteries being very effective though?

I mean, you’ve every right to go this route. But I think it’s kind of impractical

@UsedUpUsername they really are. They are widely used in the construction industry. They're just expensive for domestics developers who want to see the biggest financial returns which is why, even when they are included at planning level, they are always vetoed to leverage profits.

A good system with adequate storage can absolutely power and entire family home.

@notimagain

Stating the obvious but there are solar panels and there are solar panels and I sense perhaps some confusion creeping in.

There solar panels used to heat water which work by circulating a fluid through panels exposed to the sun and then subsequently through a heat exchanger (coil) in your hot water cylinder.

There are then the photovoltaic panels/cells which (via the magic of semi-conductors) convert sunlight directly to electricity.

Yes.

I can’t imagine those batteries being very effective though?

They literally store all the energy you capture so day and you can then use it as you need it. They’re incredibly effective and it’s odd that you’d think otherwise.

No, I don’t think so. I think it’ll herald a new era of really fucking expensive gas.

[quote CandyLeBonBon]@UsedUpUsername they really are. They are widely used in the construction industry. They're just expensive for domestics developers who want to see the biggest financial returns which is why, even when they are included at planning level, they are always vetoed to leverage profits.

A good system with adequate storage can absolutely power and entire family home. [/quote]
What are the specs? (I’m still really skeptical, but I want to hear the scenarios)

UsedUpUsername

“What are the specs”

^ seconded…

In the case of, for example, a domestic photovoltaic system without knowing the storage capacity (e.g. amp-hours) and the load the household is demanding on that storage system during the hours when the cells are producing zilch it’s not really possible to be impressed, unimpressed, skeptical or not.

I cant give the specs but my BiL who is really into these things is currently fitting batteries to his already impressive solar array. He says that battery technology has really improved over the last couple of years and the price is coming down, so his view is that it's a technology that is likely to see fairly rapid growth and application. His plan is to run both his car and his house from the energy he generates (but he does have a large south facing roof and twice the no. of panels most people have).

@GlobalForce apparently there is also a shortage of uranium (can't remember why), so this is another reason why nuclear is also not a long term solution.

@UsedUpUsername they have been used commercially for some years.

Here, CNBC's Sustainable Energy looks at the top 10 corporations in the U.S. by their installed capacity of solar power.
• Prologis — 120.7 MW.
• Apple — 79.4 MW. ...
• Kohl's — 51.5 MW. ...
• Costco Wholesale — 50.8 MW. ...
• General Growth Properties — 50.2 MW. ...
• IKEA — 44.9 MW. ...
• Macy's — 38.9 MW. ...
• Amazon.com — 33.6 MW. ...

Take a look at the specs here. It's not tinpot science. https://irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Publication/2019/Nov/IRENAFutureeofSolarrPV_2019.pdf

And here: https://css.umich.edu/sites/default/files/Photovoltaic%20EnergyCSS07-088_e2021.pdf

Happy reading!