AIBU to want my 5 yr old to go sleep by herself?

[MarshmallowX1983]

DD is 5yo and has never fallen asleep by herself. Every night we sit by her bed and sing to her till she drops off. Some nights this is 5 mins other nights it’s 40. Some nights I have plenty of patience for it and other nights I’m tired and hungry and I find it unbearable. We’ve tried multiple times to leave her to it, leaving a night light and a Moshi story on, she just screams the house down. CIO does not work, she just screams and screams, and it never did when she was a baby (she would scream till she threw up)

DS is 7 and has been falling asleep by himself since he was about 12 weeks old. DD has always been a bad sleeper which I blame myself for as when she was born I was dealing with a 2 year old and a baby and I just wanted to get her to sleep so singing and rocking seemed like the quickest way. Talk about a rod for your own back! Here we are 5 years later.

Should I keep going and expect her to eventually grow out of it? Or will she be calling me from Halls of Residence at uni when she’s 18, asking me to sing down the phone to her?!

I also have a 5 year old. We sit at her door after years of lying beside her. I sit on my phone so I don’t mind too much, she likes to know we’re close by.

DD2 is 6yo and she went to sleep on her own for a week, bribed with the treat of a sleepover at PILs and also we pointed out her 4yo cousin goes to sleep on his own. After the sleepover she tried to go back to us staying, and sometimes we do as a treat, but we know she can do it now!

DH will say she has to go to sleep on her own tonight and he'll stay with her tomorrow night - that usually works, and she's asking less and less. She probably has one of us staying with her once or twice a week now.

Bribery?

I got my son to do it around 6 by saying if he did it for two weeks he’d get an expensive item he wanted. Worked perfectly.

Also he has an audio book or music to keep him company

@Jangle33 - I do pop up on the sleep boards warning people of the potential consequences of their actions the problem is if you have a baby that will cry until they're sick, what are you meant to do?! Absolutely we did not do DD1 any favours because still now aged 8 she struggles to get to sleep but it was very clear as a toddler she was always going to outlast us. I am 100% confident we did something wrong but equally have no idea what we could have done differently!

My DD is like this and seems genuinely panicked and terrified to be left alone. She’ll confidently do plenty of other things but not this. My approach is just to ride it out for now but it is frustrating

Oh and she used to be fine. It started last year during lockdown

Following I have have the same issue with my 4 year old. She was a brilliant sleeper self settled from 12 weeks old but the older she got I had to stay with her to fall asleep. Usually it only took 5 minutes so it didn't bother me. Up until recently she has always fallen asleep quickly but the past few months she's taking an hour sometimes longer to fall asleep. I can't even leave the room for the toilet or she follows me.

Hahahahaha

@underneaththeash

I'm sorry OP that's ridiculous. Tell her to go to sleep - she's 5! Put a gate up if you need to.

Ridiculous. Just put her to bed and leave.

If you say she’s stubborn, I’d show her just how stubborn I could be. If she screamed for hours, I’d punish her the next day and make sure she understood it was linked to her bedtime behaviour.

Can you record yourself singing and then tell her you will sing in person for 10 mins and the she can continue with the recording (put it on repeat)

Maybe you could put an audio book on and sit quietly in the room for a few nights. Then when she is used to the audio book instead of you singing spend only a short time in the room before saying you will just go and make a cup of tea etc.

Have you spoken to her about it in the daytime? I think at night kids are less reasonable, and if she’s already screaming and crying I don’t think it’s going to really get through to her. I would try and speak to her in the morning, saying she is a big girl and it’s all a bit silly to be screaming when she knows you’re downstairs.

No judgement though as my 5yo is in my bed most nights at the moment! But if it isn’t working I just think talking in the day might help a bit.

The ‘rod for your own back’ stuff isn’t true. Some kids are just better sleepers than others!

If you sat with your children or rocked them or whatever as babies it was because they weren’t the type to self settle and you did what worked at the time to get them to sleep. You didn’t make them bad sleepers by rocking them; you rocked them bedside they were bad sleepers.

This is still true of 5yos. Some just need a bit more help. I’m an adult and I still struggle to fall asleep unless my husband is in bed and I have an audio book on, so I don’t have unrealistic expectations that a 5yo will automatically be able to drop off on their own.

OP, I agree that leaving and returning may help here, starting with you leaving for literally a few seconds and building up from that. Make sure she can hear you pottering nearby etc. I really recommend Lucy Wolfe’s book ‘the baby sleep solution’ for more advice on this. It’s primarily for babies but has lots of good information for improving the sleep of older children too.

If you say she’s stubborn, I’d show her just how stubborn I could be. If she screamed for hours, I’d punish her the next day and make sure she understood it was linked to her bedtime behaviour.

Genuinely… why? Even if punishment and shame worked to improve children’s behaviour (which we know from reams of studies they don’t…) why would you want bedtime to be something traumatic and distressing which proves to her that you aren’t there when she needs you and get angry when she needs help?

She’s five. She’s not trying to be spiteful or cruel. She’s a very little girl who needs help. Where is the place for punishment in this scenario?

I’d do bribery. But clear and consistent expectations so she understands.
Make the reward very motivational, not just a sticker or whatever. We did this with my son around the same age and having not slept for years. He got a sticker every night he went to sleep by himself and if he got 5 stickers per week initially (allows for a couple of bad nights) he could go to shop a choose a sweet/choc. Some people don’t agree with food as reward but when you’re desperate you’ll do anything! But just choose something that will motivate her.
The going in and out the room is good. Start with 2 mins and build up to 3.4,5. It’ll work. Just be really clear about what is happening and stick to the timings so she trusts you.

Popping out for 5 mins is too long. As a pp said it’s literally 10 seconds the first week. Then one or two bursts of 30 seconds building to 5 mins where you’re putting washing away or something. If she’s getting anxious at any point come straight back and keep on that time away for a few weeks until she is comfortable. The process will take months rather than weeks.

I know someone who was still sitting by her dd's bedside at 13, so no they dont all naturally outgrow it.

Have you tried a problem solving technique. It worked with my 3 year old.
Basically you sit down together when you are both calm and you explain the problem - mummy has to do other things and can't sit with you every night or something.
You take turns making suggestions what can work to solve it and write them all down, however silly.
Then you both cross out the ones that won't work for you and explain why.
Hopefully you come up with something that you can agree on. Stick the piece of paper to the wall / fridge and remind each other what you agreed each night before bed time.
Apparently it's meant to give them some control and ownership of the change. I was v sceptical but have to admit it worked wonders for us.

One day she won’t need you there anymore and you will miss it. Just stay with her when she asks. If you really need to eat, then eat a bit earlier before her bedtime. She’s only 5, she’s still so little.

OP it is definitely not “ridiculous,” so ignore the posters who have nothing more helpful to say than some variant of “just make her.”

I agree with everything @Gorl said - you’re in this situation because you have done the best you could to help your DD sleep, not because you have in some way messed it up.

I have a 3yo DD and am going through a similar process. So far I’ve got it down from singing her to sleep to just sitting next to her (I sing one song and then shush or ignore her anytime she speaks after that - she now sings softly to herself which is really cute and a tiny bit heartbreaking). Next step is to move further across the room and then end up outside which I think could take a couple of weeks or more. My aim is basically to go so slowly that she won’t notice that this is happening.

I would look for tiny improvements over days and weeks and don’t expect any big wins.

Good luck!

thank you everyone for the advice and ideas!

As for ‘punishment’ - at the age of 5 I’m just not ready for punishment for this kind of thing, it’s not bad behaviour, like others have said she is genuinely scared to be left alone. Her disposition (by day!) is that she’s a shy and quiet girl and she never ‘misbehaves’ at home or at school (her older brother does!)