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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think what the hell is going on with all the child murders at the moment

101 replies

Belle82 · 22/09/2021 07:55

I’ve had to turn my Facebook news tab off recently, as it became a bit of a running theme that I would go on there and look at news after LO went down. I know it works on an algorithm so because I opened one of these stories it’s going to pull up more in my feed.

But I am not exaggerating when I say there was at least one case of a child being murdered or left to die accidentally or by neglect once a week for the last 6/7 weeks.
Most of these cases were at the hands of their parents / step parents.

I know people suffer from mental health, I suffered from it very badly when my little girl was born.

But what is going on, there have been around 10 cases very recently and it is so disturbing.
Sorry, it’s kind of shaken me and angers me so much for these little children when they only deserved to be loved.

OP posts:
BrilloPaddy · 22/09/2021 11:19

I agree OP, I've had to turn the news over about the latest case of 4 murders. And had a feeling it would be the new partner........

I can't even get my head around anyone taking another life, let alone that of a child.

FrownedUpon · 22/09/2021 11:19

The number of women and children killed by men is horrific and it’s often the final act after years of domestic abuse & control.

@countingdeadwomen on Twitter is worth looking at.

isthismylifenow · 22/09/2021 11:20

@Bagelsandbrie

There was another horrible one in the papers recently where a Mum murdered her 3 children after they’d all been stuck in quarantine for 14 days after a move from New Zealand to South Africa. I know it’s always happened but there really does seem to be an awful lot of these things being reported at the moment.
It's awful. But you cannot discuss this case here.... Otherwise your post will be deleted 🙄
Booknooks · 22/09/2021 11:25

I don't think things were better in the old days, but there wasn't the same access to news from around the globe 24/7, there wasn't social media, the same amount of news outlets- it feels more overwhelming because you have to actively escape the news rather than seek it out.

BiBabbles · 22/09/2021 11:30

Always has been, always will be, type of sentiment.

I don't think it's automatically an always will be, but I think it's a vile part of nature - as I said, we see it in other animals - that we have to accept rather than the cultural concept that parents, mothers particularly, always love and enjoy and know what's best for their kids.

I agree that better mental health care, particularly for new mums is important, but I also think we need better spaces for older kids so they can spend less time in a home when they feel threatened & can get a range of guidance when the one at home is lacking.

most of the time their mothers.

This is similar to the stat on child abuse - we have to remember, mothers are most often the ones who spend more time around their children compared to fathers so are the ones most likely to cause harm purely by the significant differentces there.

If we look at the stats compared to how much contact someone has, a male parent or really, not-really-parent (particularly one who is not biologically related, aren't consistently or ever in a parenting role and young/Under 25) are the most risky.

I don't understand why they would not just leave, get themselves out of the house instead, but cite pressure or stress.

I've often wondered this at least with my own mother, it's long baffled me why she didn't leave, why she made everyone else leave instead (separate to what she did to me, she kicked out my father and both of my siblings, one after the other, and remained in that house for a couple years by herself for reasons I still have to guess at).

Part I was think cultural, trying to meet expectations, but I think a large part was territorial in a way - that was her house (at times her car) I was the invader, I should leave. When she was trying to get me to kill myself, her language was always how I needed to go somewhere else, I was the problem so I needed to leave, similar language was used when she threatened and then tried to kill me. I was a problem she was getting rid of and out of her space.

I found other people made the excuses around how stressed and pressured she was far more than she did. She would call me a burden to demean me, but it was other people who brought up the stressed and pressure and not well and I notice that in media coverage as well. I think at a cultural level, I don't think we can accept that sometimes, death is the desired acceptable outcome among a range of other options they knew were available rather than the last ditch effort of someone out of control - that happens, but I don't think it's as common as is portrayed. My mother could have sent me to my father or grandparents or other relatives - she had before, she could have just not been there, she could have left. I don't know why she wanted me specifically dead, but she did and excuses around stress and pressure were - I think unaware to the well intended people - just fed into my mother's narrative that I was burden to be unloaded, a problem to solved. It made me even less of a person to her.

I once got great advice on closure, since I'll never get that in the traditional sense of having her admit it was wrong, that might be useful - If you can't understand why someone would do something so horrible, it's because you aren't currently someone who would do that. In fixing the issues that lead to the terrible deaths, I do think we do better understanding if only to better see warning signs to help kids, but I think for those upset by these stats and news, I've found that useful.

Lollipop444 · 22/09/2021 11:39

@DrManhattan

I'm surprised it's not more, the amount of pressure some people and families must be under at the moment is off the chart.
No, I don’t buy it at all.

The perpetrators are mainly men and the victims are mainly women and children. That would seem to me to be more of an issue of power and control.

If it were stress and mental health related you would expect it to be a more evenly spread range of victims, especially knowing the huge amount of people who struggle with this.

godmum56 · 22/09/2021 11:39

@Runnyrose

I work in safeguarding. This is not suddenly a new thing. Sadly children are killed or allowed to die far more often than the general public know about. The algorithm is simply alerting you to it more because that's how algorithms works. Stop clicking on those articles and they'll eventually stop showing up for you but that doesn't change a thing for the children they're about.
On FB, you can also change the algorithm by closing stories or blocking the original poster. I agree it changes nothing for the victim though.
Lollipop444 · 22/09/2021 11:40

#Range of victims and perpetrators

CaptainMyCaptain · 22/09/2021 11:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DumbestBlonde · 22/09/2021 11:59

In the Killamarsh case, they weren't even his children, and of course one girl was not even a child of the mother. Poor things.

ddl1 · 22/09/2021 12:01

There have always been cases of men or rarely women killing their families. It's truly terrible when it happens, but it isn't new. There is an American folk song, 'The Murder of the Lawson Family', about a man killing his wife and six of his seven children and then himself. It's sometimes assumed to be an invented melodrama, but it was sadly a real incident, which occurred in 1928. The most recent case is really horrifying, as I suppose they all are. That little girl who was just there at the wrong time, visiting her friend...

Tanith · 22/09/2021 12:04

@Blossomtoes

Infanticide by mothers is a class of crime that needs to be seen and understood separately from male murder of families / family annihilation

Why? That’s completely illogical. The kids are dead, regardless of the sex of their killer.

Many cases by mothers are linked to postnatal illness, so sex does need to be considered.
stickygotstuck · 22/09/2021 12:11

@TheSockMonster

Well I never. It turns out family annihilation is on the rise Sad

www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-23686913

“The cases have also become more common with more than half occurring since the year 2000. Only six cases were found in the 1980s”

The article seems to imply toxic masculinity and a need for control are behind the rise.

I can’t help but wonder if these men have always existed but were more easily able to satisfy their urge for control in other ways historically when it wasn’t so easy for women to escape domestic violence.

Thank you, TheSockMonster, that confirms my previous reading.

I can’t help but wonder if these men have always existed but were more easily able to satisfy their urge for control in other ways historically when it wasn’t so easy for women to escape domestic violence

I think there same types of people have alwyas existed. It's the changes in circumstances that enable them until they become more prominent at certain times.

As I said, there seems to be an element of social contagion. And from that point of view, I wonder if giving oxygen to these horrible cases is the wrong thing to do.

I would be interest to read any studies on a possible correlation between the rise in horribly violent games and gory 'horror' films.

The 'good thing' is that if it is 'new', we should be in time to do something to stop it [clutches at straws Sad ].

This is a complete tangent, but let's take GTA. Why would you let your under 18 play that?While I'm at it, why would any over 18 want to? Seen the demeaning representation of women there? Prostitutes you can run over and kill with impunity anyone? And y es, I know it's not real, but it's pretty fucked up if you ask me. And some people (young men) are more impressionable than others. Ditto violent porn. Etcetera.

iloveeverykindofcat · 22/09/2021 12:20

All types of murder increase during economic and social crises. Except for child-on-child murder which stays pretty stable (and thankfully very rare). There probably is a slight increase at the moment but equally your algorythm will now be biasing towards it. Maybe click off for a while.

Lasttimeneveragain · 22/09/2021 12:22

I work in safeguarding, and it is unfortunately nothing new.

Perhaps the question to ask is why the media have suddenly deigned it to be something of interest?

52andblue · 22/09/2021 12:28

@Blossomtoes

Infanticide by mothers is a class of crime that needs to be seen and understood separately from male murder of families / family annihilation

Why? That’s completely illogical. The kids are dead, regardless of the sex of their killer.

My take on this is that it is important to understand the motivation to prevent escalation to crime. If the motivations are different then the preventative strategies may need to be too.
Blossomtoes · 22/09/2021 12:32

Many cases by mothers are linked to postnatal illness, so sex does need to be considered

PND isn’t the only mental illness. It’s not a valid reason for making a special case for women.

VaguelyInteresting · 22/09/2021 12:37

YABU to link it to maternal mental health.

I can’t say that there are many cases that seem to be mothers harming their children after acute mental health episodes such as psychosis etc (and those cases are always desperately sad). It’s more violent men who either escalate abuse over time (with or without coercive control over their partners) or men who use children as a means by which to take revenge on women.

But otherwise, yes, it does seem to be constant at the moment, and I suspect it’s a knock on effect of reduced safeguarding contacts and interventions from various services, as a result of the pandemic. Though we’re too soon to have firm stats on that (I believe? Happy to be told otherwise).

eddiemairswife · 22/09/2021 12:37

Infanticide used to be defined as the killing of a child under 1 year old by its mother.

iloveeverykindofcat · 22/09/2021 12:39

If the motivations are different then the preventative strategies may need to be too.

They usually are but not always. Criminologists typify family anniliators as anomic (fails to see family as separate from self) self-righteous (does it to punish a third party, usually other parent) disappointed (family has not lived up to rigid idea of what family should be, this includes honour killings) or paranoid (belief they are saving the family from a worse fate). Women are almost always the last kind, but not always. Men are sometimes the last kind, but not usually. Of course that's just a schema and in real life its a lot messier with a lot more overlap but it gives you an idea of how women are usually differently motivated to kill.

Lollipop444 · 22/09/2021 12:41

I’m no expert in this field, but on first impressions, with a male perpetrator it usually is suggestive of them trying to get revenge on a female, hence the power and control comment.

This often does not appear to be the case with a female perpetrator. However, I admit that I do not know the full details with any of these cases, so it may be what the media has led me to believe.

JasonMomoasgirlfriend · 22/09/2021 12:42

Unfortunately I think it has always happened but social media means we are aware of it more.

I have been on tiktok and I like watching happy babies but I've also watched some very sad stories and now all I seem to get is babies who are sick with cancer, or babies who have been shaken and are very badly brain damaged.
I am 30 weeks pregnant and am finding it very distressing. So I'm going to delete tik tok

Blossomtoes · 22/09/2021 12:45

Very wise @JasonMomoasgirlfriend. It’s as important to look after your mental health as your physical health.

Bunnycat101 · 22/09/2021 12:50

I’ve found the reporting of the New Zealand case and the Killamarsh case upsetting. The first seems to be directly related to quarantine but she must have been poorly for that to have escalated to killing her children. The Killamarsh case seems so shocking. Like a PP I can’t fathom what must be going through the minds of the family who had sent their child for a sleepover. It is quite chilling when you think about how it is such a normal thing to do but you never really ever know what is happening in someone else’s family. The reporting seems very vague on what happened. I assume deliberately but I am just so sad for those poor children and the lady who must have been terrified.

zaffa · 22/09/2021 13:02

@Hortibunda

Hang on, I understand that cases of babies and chilsren being murdered are very sadly quite common, but is everyone saying here that cases where fathers (or related males) who murder an entire family, usually the wife or ex wife and children, are not new too? I must say I am surprised by that. I thought it was a relatively new phenomenon which started during the last seven years or so? Happy to be corrected if I am wrong however. The only case before that time period I can remember is that involving Jeremy Bamber's family.
I don't think it's new - there was a local case in the 60s with a man who murdered his family with an axe and then hung himself - he was 'shut out' from his local Brethren chapter and if I understand no one was allowed to talk to him. It must have triggered a mental breakdown - really tragic story.
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