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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

No wonder why people get annoyed with those on furlough

106 replies

Whatnotwhat · 21/09/2021 18:08

I work in a social club in the evening. I do have a day time job.
Before covid I worked Tuesday, Friday and Saturday.
I have been very grateful that I was paid furlough during lockdown.
At the beginning of September the club finally opened fully.
Glad to be back working missed the company.

This is now my aibu the girl who works on a Monday, Thursday and Saturday
who was paid furlough for those hours has come back and will only work
on the Monday as she doesn't want to work the other days.
Her words 'furlough was money for nothing'. She also has a job during the day.
Our employer isn't allowed to hire anyone else yet until she puts it in writing
that she will only work Mon

W

OP posts:
AICM · 21/09/2021 20:42

First post in is a NAFWALT.

Yes we now but far too many are!

LaLaJ · 21/09/2021 20:45

all of us who worked should be given an additional 80% of our pay or a massive tax rebate

I've never called 999 or used the emergency services, never claimed UC, rarely use the NHS and didn't have kids in schools for years either... Can I have my massive tax rebate now please?

As someone who also worked throughout, maybe just consider yourself fortunate enough to still have a job.

Do you think huge swathes of unemployed people would have been better for your taxes?

HalzTangz · 21/09/2021 20:47

@WhenISnappedAndFarted

A lot of people I know who was furloughed is now in heavy debt because despite being paid 80% it wasn't enough to cover the bills etc
Then they were covering there bills before furlough. The 20% they didn't get was there tax and NI contribution (or the equivalent too) so they would have been taking home roughly the same. I was furloughed for 6 weeks and noticed no change in my take home pay. I actually saved loads as wasn't buying coffee and lunch daily and wasn't paying my commute (£100 a week average I saved during furlough), I'm now hybrid, 1 day in office 4 at home and still saving 80 odd a week. Over the 18 months I've saved just shy of 9k
LaLaJ · 21/09/2021 20:50

@AICM

First post in is a NAFWALT.

Yes we now but far too many are!

What's your magic solution then? How much better for your taxes do you think all of those people on furlough losing their jobs instead would have been?

Honest to God I'm sick of this topic now. Always the same "well my friends, dog walkers aunty knows someone on FB who had a ball on furlough". AND?

There are people who take the piss out of the benefit system so shall we all just stomp our feet and say IM NOT PAYING FOR IT?

People don't like benefit shaming (rightly so). What's the difference?

Is it only acceptable if the people on furlough have a sufficiently shit time to make you all feel better?

MatildaIThink · 21/09/2021 20:55

@seaandsandcastles

What’s the problem? She’s decided she values her time more and wants to reduce her days.
I would imagine the issue is that she was hapoy to keep taking taxpayers money on furlough, but when it can to actually working again said no.
LaLaJ · 21/09/2021 20:59

This topic honestly just makes me think "fucking grow up" every time I see people moan about it.

It's like children whining because they had to work and someone else didn't and it's not fair.

No one chose to be furloughed and I'm fairly sure all of the people complaining would feel differently if it were them who had been.

I worked throughout. It was hard. It was stressful and it was busy. But furlough helped some of my friends and family keep themselves above water through a global pandemic and I for one am not going to start throwing my toys out the pram like a whinging child now because of it. So what that some people take the piss, that's life, you will never get a system that people don't exploit in some way, you have to get over that. I'm just grateful that it was there to help the people I care about who needed it.

HahaAreyouSerious · 21/09/2021 21:36

People like you are exactly why the country is the mess that it is.
Wasting all this energy and ire for the people on the bottom rungs of the ladder, arguing oung over scraps and minimum wage hours.

This woman has done nothing wrong other than not want to be in a shit environment with awful people, with shit hours and even shitter pay.

You sound bitter and horrible to be around.

HahaAreyouSerious · 21/09/2021 21:39

I would imagine the issue is that she was hapoy to keep taking taxpayers money on furlough, but when it can to actually working again said no.

Are we also forgetting that this woman also works another job? I'm sure she's more than paying her share of taxes.

Now you've got to find another reason for her to be tax dodging lazy cow.
I'm sure you'll find one, though.

HalzTangz · 21/09/2021 22:47

@BrendaBubbles

How has she taken advantage?

Furlough was designed specifically to keep people in a job where there was no work to be done. There is now work but the employee is refusing to work. Big difference.

She's not refusing to work, she just wants to reduce hours.

Big difference between refusing work and reducing hours.

Whilst furlough was their to save jobs, many were made redundant whilst on furlough. It didn't save many jobs (and many of those redundancies were made by companies still trading)

HalzTangz · 21/09/2021 23:02

Ridiculous.

You worked all the way through because your workplace was able to open and trade.

Furlough was for those whose workplaces were forced to close.

We all (well those that work) have to pay tax which pays all sorts of things back.

Your tax also goes into the benefits pot, shall we workers refuse to contribute to those claiming benefits too

Just like we now have to pay more NI for social care(we could argue we why we pay extra just so someone else doesn't have to sell there house)

user1497207191 · 22/09/2021 12:29

@Blankiefan

As much as people are full of moral outrage about this pattern of behaviour, I think its a rare person that would have turned down the furlough cash and resigned if they weren't planning on returning, rather than shut up and take it.
Absolutely, like the people who "claim" they're returning to work after maternity leave, just to continue getting their wages/maternity pay, but hand in their notice when it comes time to return.

Unfortunately, it's natural human behaviour.

Shame the civil servants and politicians don't have the brains to set up these schemes to take account of the entirely foreseeable "unforeseen" consequences. They must be pretty thick not to anticipate the human behaviour.

Underamour · 22/09/2021 12:48

I keep hearing that people on furlough just want money and aren’t working. I have yet to meet anyone like that in real life though. It’s almost like it’s the new “benefits scroungers” line that people trot out. Who knows?

GoogleyEyes1 · 22/09/2021 13:21

Absolutely, like the people who "claim" they're returning to work after maternity leave, just to continue getting their wages/maternity pay, but hand in their notice when it comes time to return

This is another one I don't get the outrage at either tbh.

If someone on maternity leave quit and stopped claiming SMP they wouldn't just live on fresh air. They'd just go onto some other form of benefit. We wouldn't be better off for it as a society. And I think it's really unreasonable to expect anyone to quit a job before they are good and ready.

I didn't go back after maternity leave, I was considering leaving already right at the start of mat leave but so many things could have gone wrong between then and when I actually gave notice, why on earth would I have quit before I needed to? It wasn't a quick and easy decision, it took planning between myself and my husband and time to figure out if that's really what we wanted as a family. Do people expect anyone who starts going to interviews for new jobs to tell their existing one the second they start looking elsewhere and to quit before they've got a new one or a plan sorted? What's the difference?

This is only really applicable for basic SMP claimers as well because most companies will have some sort of claw back for enhanced mat pay anyway if you don't return to work.

NamechangeApril21 · 22/09/2021 13:54

@flippertyop

Those people earning 80 percent also had no transport costs to get to work. Didn't need to drop children off at school saving costs. Couldn't eat out etc etc I can't understand how they can be in debt
I'm a SAHM (because the cost of child care is so high), so we had no childcare costs, my DH didn't have a cost to get to work because he's lifted in a work van, we didn't eat out before lockdown because we couldn't afford it. 100% of our money goes to bills/utilities/mortgage/groceries - none of which went down, and in fact some of which went up. A drop of 20% was absolutely massive to us.

What a ridiculously privileged and tone deaf thing to say.

TemptedToSleepInTheShed · 22/09/2021 17:27

Completely get you. In my experience it was the worst employees that were furloughed as it was money for the company with the least detrimental affect to the workforce.

Those who worked hard or well needed to work harder and / or better to make up for those sitting around laughing at the system

flippertyop · 22/09/2021 17:32

@NamechangeApril21 you would have more money available if you were not a SAHM for a start. Additionally if your husband was furloughed one of you could have got a temporary job to cover the additional 20 percent as many people I know did. If he was furloughed you didn't have to be at home. If 100 percent of your money goes on bills you are living beyond your means and need to do a rethink

DesmondTututoo · 22/09/2021 17:39

I get where you're coming from.

In my work, having worked more hours to cover the furloughed (without extra pay), and taken on extra work that isn't part of my job description just to try and keep things ticking over, over the last 18 months, it was a bit of a slap in the face to find that a colleague (who is lovely btw and normally works really hard) who spent over half the last year on 100% furlough (and the rest on 75% furloughed) being awarded "employee of the year".
I'm wondering why I bothered.

I'm not sure whether the person who nominated them is trying to make a point (they've been trying to make a few unpleasant points) or genuinely thinks they deserve it (yes they are perfectly aware about how much they've been furloughed).
And I'm not sure which is more hurtful.

NamechangeApril21 · 22/09/2021 17:45

[quote flippertyop]@NamechangeApril21 you would have more money available if you were not a SAHM for a start. Additionally if your husband was furloughed one of you could have got a temporary job to cover the additional 20 percent as many people I know did. If he was furloughed you didn't have to be at home. If 100 percent of your money goes on bills you are living beyond your means and need to do a rethink [/quote]
😂😂😂

Thank you for your enlightened advice, we didn't think of any of that. I'm so glad you know all of my personal circumstances to issue such non-judgemental advice 🙄

I'll stick to my original comment, you're speaking from a place of privilege and are incredibly tone deaf. I'll also add on patronising, judgemental, close minded and condescending.

Apricotblue · 22/09/2021 17:58

@NamechangeApril21 genuine question here not sarcy comment… was the 20% you lost in wages not what you’d be taxed anyway?

flippertyop · 22/09/2021 18:06

It wasn't as much as twenty percent because some of that is taxed. Priveledged? There is nothing more priveledged than having the choice to be a stay at home mum - but most of us don't have that choice as we have to put food on the table. Nearly everyone I know took a second job during furlough to cover their loss - many ended up better off. I can't believe you both sat at home and then are moaning your pay dropped by twenty percent. That truly is priveledged

NamechangeApril21 · 22/09/2021 18:08

[quote Apricotblue]@NamechangeApril21 genuine question here not sarcy comment… was the 20% you lost in wages not what you’d be taxed anyway?[/quote]
You got taxed on your furlough wages

NamechangeApril21 · 22/09/2021 18:27

@flippertyop

It wasn't as much as twenty percent because some of that is taxed. Priveledged? There is nothing more priveledged than having the choice to be a stay at home mum - but most of us don't have that choice as we have to put food on the table. Nearly everyone I know took a second job during furlough to cover their loss - many ended up better off. I can't believe you both sat at home and then are moaning your pay dropped by twenty percent. That truly is priveledged
We have no one to help with our kids. Cost of childcare where I live for my 3 dc is £900 a week. Plus once I go back to work, we have to put a car on the road. Meaning realistically I need to make close to £1k a week before I actually bring any money home. We don't get the 30 funded hours in NI that England gets. The 900 is our cost after tax free childcare, we get no contributions from UC toward childcare due to our earning when we're both working. For 2 years my husband was the SAHP, while I worked full time. Now we have switched to try and minimise the impact to each of our careers. There's nowhere I can walk to work. There's no access to public transport. We're very much priced out of both of us being able to work at the same time. Trust me, we've tried every which way to make it work because neither of us WANTS to be the SAHP. We cannot move to a new area because 1. Our kids are settled in school here 2. The upfront costs of moving 3. We have caring responsibilities for family members (dhs husband had a heart attack and isn't fit for a good amount of work on his farm so dh has to help out, my dh is in the early stages of dementia and is the main carer for my DB who has downs syndrome so now we're taking on the caring for both of them). I've 1 more year until I'm able to return to work. We have a buffer of savings, thank goodness, that we saved prior to having children so we are not living beyond our means, we are living to a tight budget to see us through the tight spell of having young children.

However an unprecedented worldwide pandemic has certainly knocked us for 6, as it has many families.

I was not moaning. My original comment was aimed at your not being able to understand how a drop in wages could possibly affect anyone. I was offering an example how a drop by that much (even after tax was £80 a week for us) very much could easily affect families.

You sound incredibly bitter.

NamechangeApril21 · 22/09/2021 18:30

*my DF is in the early stages of dementia

flippertyop · 22/09/2021 19:54

@NamechangeApril21 good list of excuses not to take responsibility for your financial position. It costs everyone money to put kids in nursery - it's a choice how many we have. It's a choice where you live. It's a choice to help on a farm instead of earning the extra 20 percent elsewhere (would your DH have given up work to help if he hasn't been furloughed? Why is this any different if you are struggling for money. If there's no where to work because there's no work around then move -it's of kids go to new schools all the time

Some people list all the reasons why they can't do things - some try to find a way to maximise opportunities. I'm not at all bitter - just get a little fed up with people moaning about their circumstances when by have choices

NamechangeApril21 · 22/09/2021 20:39

[quote flippertyop]@NamechangeApril21 good list of excuses not to take responsibility for your financial position. It costs everyone money to put kids in nursery - it's a choice how many we have. It's a choice where you live. It's a choice to help on a farm instead of earning the extra 20 percent elsewhere (would your DH have given up work to help if he hasn't been furloughed? Why is this any different if you are struggling for money. If there's no where to work because there's no work around then move -it's of kids go to new schools all the time

Some people list all the reasons why they can't do things - some try to find a way to maximise opportunities. I'm not at all bitter - just get a little fed up with people moaning about their circumstances when by have choices [/quote]
He helps on his father's farm (his ill father who has no other source of income) around his job, not instead of - its something he did before, during and after being furloughed. He didn't give up work, he was furloughed. My financial situation is fine, thank you - it just got tighter with covid, as did many peoples. DH was furloughed for 3 months, and those 3 months were tight.

Childcare costs us more than a wage, so we're in negative money if we pay for childcare and a car. Im aware many people do hand out a good chunk, if not all of their wage on childcare, but if its completely wiping out an entire wage and then eating into the second, it's not remotely financially viable, is it.

We live where we live because of caring responsibilities for ill elderly parents and my brother with down syndrome - thank you for your heartless advice of just moving and leaving them to it but I think I'm going to pass on that!

We don't qualify for any benefit other than child benefit which we'd get regardless of both of us working or not, so it's really no skin off the "tax payers" nose with one of us at home.

We did maximise our opportunities, by splitting our time as the SAHP, so each career suffered as little as possible and didn't disproportionately limit our future earning potential in the long wrong. We've savings to bridge the gap and I'll be back to work in a year - I can hear your sigh of relief from here!

I do have responsibility for my financial situation, having emergency savings before we had children to get through the pinch of the younger years.

Also to point out the hypocrisy, if you really want to be a SAHM (as seemed heavily implied by you saying you don't get the choice and are forced to work) might I suggest you maximise your opportunities to do that, and stop making excuses of a list of reasons why you can't! Why not move to somewhere with cheaper living costs, buy/rent a cheaper, smaller house in a terrible area where you know nobody and have no support network, cut back on all luxuries and don't enjoy anything, sell your car and all your assets! Elderly parents or other dependants - fuck them! There you go, you can raise your DC full time yourself with out putting them into nursery!

*I'm not serious and don't actually think this but I have enough self awareness to know that it's incredibly rude to tell people how to live their lives and make wild assumptions about their circumstances, and I'm not self righteous enough to assume that the way I live is the best way to live.

My point is clearly going over your head though - your argument was that people couldn't possibly be struggling at 80% of their wages because they weren't paying childcare costs, or for their commute and weren't eating out. My point, which you seem to be missing, is that many people don't have these costs because they have free childcare in forms of a SAHP or family help, the have no cost to work through company cars, lifts or walking and maybe just don't actually eat out the much!! Some people deliberately structure their lives to not have these costs, so that working is financially viable. So obviously a drastic change (caused by something completely unprecedented and unplanned for) is going to leave some people in hardship and varying levels. (We had to tighten our belts, other people lost their homes and livelihoods).

Also to add, furlough was capped at 2.5k a month, so someone earning over that was losing more than just 20% - and giving that people live within their means, that's left a hell of a lot of higher earners also feeling the pinch and no longer being able to afford bills they previously could.

Much easier to relentlessly judge someone for doing the best the possibly can under the circumstances they are in (which you don't understand fully).

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