This mother hates her son and tells me regularly - I don't want to hear it.

[Wallythewanderingwalrus]

I don't know the best place to post so I've opted for AIBU for traffic. I've NC'd as this could be quite outing.

As background I have mental health problems and have done for years I'm high functioning and manage a day to day busy job despite crippling anxiety some days. Negative intrusive thoughts, all sorts. I'm regularly seeing my GP for help and waiting for counselling.

I work in a small company (about 15 employees). The boss is high maintenance but generally a good person I've learned to read him well and I manage his moods to mostly help myself.

The boss' mother also works in the company. They have a very poor mother/son relationship and rarely speak. They've had problems since boss was a teenager and have gone through various periods of NC. He desperately needed help in the business a few years ago (before I started) and she offered to help him out. She is paid a very good salary for her role so understandably doesn't want to give it up. She is very vocal about how much she 'hates' her son! Yes she's actually said that. She says the most vile things about him, one that particularly stuck in my mind is that she wished she'd drowned him at birth. Truly hideous and the most difficult thing to listen to.

I've spoken to my boss about her behaviour but for obvious reasons I haven't told him exactly what she's said. She mostly works remotely but comes into my office once or twice a week when I have this sort of conversation from her. For the last two weeks I've avoided her saying I need to be in external meetings. I can't keep doing this.

It's actually destroying me - the boss has said he'll sack her if I want him to but I don't want to be responsible for that.

How on earth do I deal with this almost impossible situation. I've told her I don't want to listen to it but she's a very argumentative and confrontational woman and I can't bear to get into that sort of situation with her.

Can you "grey rock" her?

"Hmmm, I'm tending to this at the moment Doris." then ignore completely.

"Right. I'm afraid you'll have to leave me be, I've a lot to do."

"I'm not available for a personal chat. I'm working."

Couple it with the broken record technique. Just keep repeating stock phrases.

"I'm at work. I'm not engaging in this conversation."

"Yeah but Dave is really pissing me off and I -"

Put hand up in stop position.

"I'm not having a conversation. I am working."

"Yeah but Dave-"

"Doris. I will have to stop you again and remind you, I am at work. I have no wish to engage in conversation with you."

Then ignore. Go on with what you are doing.

Bank of boring phrases, no empathy, no reaction, no facial expressions, broken record technique, Rinse and repeat until she sees it's pointless engaging with you.

Honestly, I've worked in a company run by a toxic family like this, and the only thing to do is leave.

Thanks for your reply. I'm just not very strong and hate confrontation. I actually said to her a few weeks back did she think the job was for her, she shouted at me, do you want do get rid of me then?? Yes I do, I would love that but of course I replied, of course not.

Excellent advice above.

And: headphones to block her out. Think about a "do not disturb" sign too.

If the boss wants to sack her he should go ahead and do it, but it's not fair to lay it at your door! I think the way to stop someone talking is to hold your hand up, palm facing them, and just say "stop! That's between you and him. Not my business".

She's also really awful at her job! She makes so many mistakes that I mostly clear up for her - not because I'm covering but I'd be terrified anyone thought I'd made them.

I'd make it clear to the boss that it is his decision to sack her, but nevertheless not hold back on saying that it would be a good idea from your point of view. The decision will always be his. It sounds like for everyone's mental health and that of the company it would be good if she left.

Alternatively, leave yourself. As pp said, a toxic family business will make for a stressful work environment.

Ask her "if you hate him so much, why are you working for him?"

Or just say "I find that really sad that you feel that way. I hope you don't say things like this to his face as it would break my heart to think my mother woukd speak about me the way you speak about your son. I'd actually prefer it if you didn't say these things to me."

It isn't confrontational to express your feelings.

Do you think he still needs the help? Ie would the business be in trouble if she wasn't there? (Doesn't sound like it).

I agree with the blocking strategy above.

It sounds as if he would like to sack her but doesn't want to do it for a variety of reasons. I'd set a timescale for something to change - 2 months? - and perhaps tell him that you're doing so - that it's not a job that works well with two people doing it. Then search for another job. The market seems good at the moment to find more work.

I think the way to deal with this is that she is distracting you from your work and making errors which you have to rectify. Don't make it about her relationship with your boss. She could be moaning about anyone. What's relevant is she is stopping you doing your work and creating a horrible environment.

You could certainly say to ‘do you just want to get rid of me then?!’ A calm my point is that you wouldn’t have this job if you’d never had him or drowned him at birth.
‘Dave is my boss and pays my salary ’ is another good reply. I need to stop you there, dave is my boss.
‘You know, in any other circumstances I’d be thinking I should report this conversation to the police’ for particularly nasty ones.
Seriously though, can it hurt for you to say to your boss ‘she’s very nasty about you. I hate hearing the things she says and I think honestly you’d be better off with her not working here.’ It’s all true.

I'd let your boss sack her to be honest, she sounds awful.

You can't change this situation without confrontation. Why do you hate confrontation? Sometimes it's exactly what a situation needs.

Either say to the boss yes, please do sack her, she is poor at her job and behaves monstrously. Or cut her off very firmly when she starts and say: 'Stop speaking like this. It's revolting. I refuse to listen to you talk about drowning your son at birth. It's nothing to do with our work. Get therapy or anger management or stop drinking or take another job. But never waste my time with your poison again. OK?'

Or grey rock her. Just ignore, change subject or - one I find highly effective is to interrupt and say, "Oh I just..." without finishing your sentence, as if you just remembered something important, and then walk out of the room without explanation. Stay gone for as long as you need. Come back and ignore her. Keep doing this.

@AuxiliaryFanbelt

I'd let your boss sack her to be honest, she sounds awful.

Me too. He owes her nothing if she wishes him dead.

If you want to speak to your boss keep it factual about her mistakes and distraction. It is HIS decision what to do. Don't let him pass it on to you.

And this is an opportunity for you to be strong. Be very clear that he is your boss, you have a good relationship with him and you are not prepared to engage on this subject any further.

@Wallythewanderingwalrus

Thanks for your reply. I'm just not very strong and hate confrontation. I actually said to her a few weeks back did she think the job was for her, she shouted at me, do you want do get rid of me then?? Yes I do, I would love that but of course I replied, of course not.

It's not confrontation. It's assertiveness. There's no shouting or arguing involved from your side, just blanket, boring statements.

Do not engage with her, she wants your shock, your empathy. Monotone, lack of expression, calm, boring,

"I'm working. Can't listen."

"I'm busy. Can't chat."

"I don't have time to listen."

"You'll have to leave. I'm working."

That's not confrontation because you aren't actually engaging with anything personal she's saying. She wants attention and to be heard. If you listen or if you react in an emotional way she's going to keep coming back and leeching off you.

If she sees that you are as boring as a grey rock and she gets literally nothing back from you she will get bored and move on.

Do you think your anxiety issues would reduce if you worked elsewhere?

I'd tell her that I thought speaking about her son in that manner was disgusting and that I don't want to hear it anymore. Straight to the point.

Thanks everyone. She is the only person who causes any anxiety in work - other than the usual work stresses that you'd get anywhere. There's some really good advice. The workplace would be no worse off if she didn't work here anymore. I clear up most of her mistakes so that's no worse than doing the job. She always claims more hours than she works so she's very expensive. She's truly awful.

As for confrontation do people ever actually like it?? I certainly couldn't deal with it. Grey rocking is a good idea if I can follow it through but I'm a people pleaser so wouldn't find it easy. I like the idea of staying factual and telling the boss she's distracting me and making errors as @HotPenguin suggested.

I'm a people pleaser too. Grey rock gets easier with practice and when you understand that its the "niceness" and "people pleasing" traits that toxic people actively seek out to feed off. If it's making you ill and unhappy listening and engaging with it daily, surely the alternative of being expressionless and boring and having this woman swiftly move on is better and worth a tiny bit of effort for the reward.

You need to tell her to just shut the fuck up,
With some people, bluntness is only the way.

Is there any reason she needs to come into your office?

I would try the “I’m going to stop you there” method.

When she walks in the room you put up your hand and say, “I’m going to stop you there, Ann. I don’t have time to talk today.”

Do it any time she starts. “I’m going to stop you there. I’m here to work and not comfortable hearing about your family issues.”

I hate confrontation, too but you have to stand up for yourself.

There is no reason for her to come into the office, she openly says she does it for social contact! There's only me in the office so she comes for a chat and a moan and I really don't want to hear it. Quite aside from being quite busy and not being able to get any work done.

I just couldn't say "I'm going to stop you" it's just not me - she'd have to make me so angry I didn't care what she thought to say that. I don't even know why I care what she thinks, I think she's vile.

She's very nearly 70 years old. I'm in no way ageist as I'm in my 50's myself but she is quite unable to grasp most of what we do as a business - it's like dealing with a nasty elderly parent. She won't retire as she likes the money!! I bet she bloody does.

The boss has said he will fire his mother
Without knowing the detail?

I think you should be very mad!

I also would tell the boss she’s disrupting your work. You don’t have to tell him what she says, just that she’s disruptive as you should anyone who behaves this way.

I find this very hard to believe. If she's paid a very good salary then why was he so desperate for help? He could have paid someone who was good and unrelated for that. If she was working for nothing and the business was failing, that might be different. Just in case this is a plot - tighten it up!

She's sitting in the office saying she wishes she'd drowned him. Yet after you spoke to him he said he'd get rid of her if you liked? Why would your opinion come into it if he knew she was saying things like that?

In the event this is true, say to him, "Look, Boss, your mum is saying terrible things about you and creating a toxic working environment. She's also crap at her job and you're over-paying her. If I were you I'd get rid of her and reconsider whether you want a relationship of any kind with her."