Alex Monroe is ridiculous

[buzzoffbee]

I really loved their hidden bee locket but wanted it 50% bigger. (1.5cm tall instead of 1cm)

After several attempts and mis-communications with them going back to April, I finally managed to get a quote from them today! The original is £775, they want between £3500 and £5000!

Is it me, or does anyone else think they've lost the plot? They really don't want to make this necklace for me, do they?

Anyone recommend a similar jeweller who can make something similar at a more reasonable price?

I would imagine you are playing for them to create do extra drawings, creating an new mould. The extra gold, taking in the price of gold at the current rate.

Well it's similar if you think you're only ever gonna make 1 x 12oz and you need to recover the cost for new tins from that customer

And also, no reputable jeweller will accept a commision to rip off someone else's work, and it's a dick move to even ask.

Say your standard cake is circular, 6cm deep and 20cm in diameter. The total volume of the cake would be 1885cm³. Someone asks for a cake that's 50% bigger — 30cm in diameter. The total volume of that cake would be 4241cm³. It's 2¼ times the volume of the smaller cake. If you'd only charged 50% extra for ingredients you'd be out of pocket because you've used 2½ times the quantity, to make a cake that's "only" 50% bigger. When you also take into account the fact that you've had to buy a new, bigger cake tin, put it in the oven longer, spend time working out the new cooking times and troubleshooting any issues that arise because of the change in the properties of the cake you're making, you'll be seriously short-changing yourself by charging only 50% more.

@buzzoffbee

I bake cakes- if someone wanted a 12oz cake instead of a standard 8oz cake I wouldn't increase the price from £50 to £325- it doesn't make any sense!

Well take your example.

If you own an 12oz tin and needed to buy a 10oz tin, and that tin was £20 in Lakeland, you’d possibly add £20 to the quotation.

Now imagine that Lakeland doesn’t make that size tin, in fact nobody does. You’re going to have to make it yourself. It’s going to take you 3 days to do that, 3 days you could have spent on some other income generating work. And the materials are really expensive for it. They were for the 8oz too, but you estimated you could sell 1000 cakes so it was worth it. You think you’ll get a 12oz order again… never.

Not just buy a new cake tin - hand carve it from scratch!

Xpost

[quote buzzoffbee]@gorl, yes I thought that and I wouldn't really want to copy the design- it feels tainted now, what a shame![/quote]
That’s pretty shitty. You don’t want to rip off a designer’s ideas because it’s “tainted” - so because it’s unethical?

@BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand

Not just buy a new cake tin - hand carve it from scratch!

Fair point

OP you're asking for a one-off, custom-made version of a mass-produced product, which contains significantly more of the expensive materials. I'm surprised you're surprised at the price jump.

@ClumpingBambooIsALie

50% bigger doesn't mean 50% more gold. I don't know what shape the piece of jewellery is, but to simplify it I'll pretend it's a sphere, which will overestimate somewhat but perhaps not much. The formula for the volume of a sphere is V = (4/3)πr3, so increasing the diameter of a sphere by 50% increases the volume by 237.5%. So unless I've fucked up the maths somewhere, a sphere of gold that's 50% taller actually has nearly 3½ times as much gold in it.

+

*They might make the standard one 'to order', but they will have a pre-made mould that they use to make each one, with one mould making a large number of pieces. The cost to them of making the standard size are therefoee significantly lower than making a bespoke piece.

A 50% increase in size will require them to make a fresh design and mould etc. that they will only be able to use once.*

These two points have nailed it.
Things you don't know:

How many hours of labour does it take to design a new die (or several, depending on the structure of the piece)?
How much does it /cost/ to make that die? (What is it made from? I know nothing about jewellery but a custom bronze die for making a pasta shape (e.g. conchiglie) would normally be several thousand pounds, and there is currently something of a shortage of bronze worldwide).
Does the new die/dies need to be outsourced (almost certainly)?
What is the lead time? What is the shipping time? What are the import costs?
How much is a skilled jeweller's labour worth?
How much does gold cost?
How much does it cost to reply to your queries and run a website and research the possibility of making a bespoke piece that you're ultimately turning your nose up to?

@ClumpingBambooIsALie

Say your standard cake is circular, 6cm deep and 20cm in diameter. The total volume of the cake would be 1885cm³. Someone asks for a cake that's 50% bigger — 30cm in diameter. The total volume of that cake would be 4241cm³. It's 2¼ times the volume of the smaller cake. If you'd only charged 50% extra for ingredients you'd be out of pocket because you've used 2½ times the quantity, to make a cake that's "only" 50% bigger. When you also take into account the fact that you've had to buy a new, bigger cake tin, put it in the oven longer, spend time working out the new cooking times and troubleshooting any issues that arise because of the change in the properties of the cake you're making, you'll be seriously short-changing yourself by charging only 50% more.

Typo — 2¼, not 2½. Sorry. Not that it makes much difference.

I think you're doing a great job of advertising Alex Monroe's jewellery OP. Bet most people who've read your thread have had a look at their website today

OK, I accept i am being unreasonable to think it should be cheaper, but I think I can find something much better for that amount of money....

Really surprised you don't get the difference between buying it in a mass produced size, and one that is made to order in a different size - in gold.

We really need to teach more business skills and commercial thinking in schools

but I think I can find something much better for that amount of money

Well yeah, so problem sorted 👍

@buzzoffbee

OK, I accept i am being unreasonable to think it should be cheaper, but I think I can find something much better for that amount of money....

try one of those £19.99 doll pendants necklaces they have in Argos, that seems like it might suit you better.

They possibly quoted you such a high price to actively deter you. It’s a lot of extra work potentially for not as much return. These brands like to focus on churning out mass produced best sellers.

You’re better off spending the ££ on something vintage and different…

@buzzoffbee

OK, I accept i am being unreasonable to think it should be cheaper, but I think I can find something much better for that amount of money....

Well then, you’ve found your solution

Have you seen how complex the design of that locket is?
I think you're the one being ridiculous!

OP if you want to appreciate the complexity if making a piece if jewellery from scratch watch All that glitters. www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000v4ft

I don’t understand the point of this thread at all- is it that you think they have miscalculated in some way? If the former ask for their breakdown- if they want the business they will engage with you. If the latter then it’s their right to quote over the odds if they don’t especially want the commission. Also your right to not buy it. Neither scenario is especially ridiculous.

Yes, that's what I thought @LittleLottieChaos

@Genegenieee

Really surprised you don't get the difference between buying it in a mass produced size, and one that is made to order in a different size - in gold.

We really need to teach more business skills and commercial thinking in schools

Or even basic maths — it's kind of surprising that someone could go through the school system and come out without an understanding that volume increases a lot more than length when you scale things up.

@buzzoffbee

Yes, that's what I thought *@LittleLottieChaos*

Looking at the locket I don't actually think this is the case.

It's a complex piece, and sizing it up so it remains in proportion will be difficult. Plus they aren't going to be able to reuse any of the tooling they will need to create which often runs to thousands of pounds.

Just accept that you don't understand the economics of bespoke pieces vs mass (or even just small scale multiple)-production.

What @ClumpingBambooIsALie said.

Plus they will charge for their time and if it takes them 4x longer to do all that then thats 4 items at 4x profit they could be doing instead.