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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To accept this gift or not?

26 replies

Morningstar66 · 20/09/2021 15:11

My parents have a very niche foreign business (in a highly technical feild) and have recently announced that they are not getting any younger and so want to gift large chunks of the shares to me and my siblings. So far all fine. My siblings are all happy with this and have without much further discussion accepted. I am hesitating and have been trying to communicate why to them and want more information.

To complicate things, my parents have (after announcing how happy they were to make this gift to us) told us that they are in the middle of a court case that could put the business in danger and part of the reasons for the share gifts is to protect the business should they lose their case.

There is a lot of back story so i will try and summerise while i list my reasons for hesitating.

My parents and me are not close, they have always prioritised their business over their relationships with us so my assumption is that their real reason for doing this is to protect the business not to do a kind thing for us.

They expect us to hand over all power over our shares to them in a power of attorney situation and not expect any dividends. So have their cake and eat it.

My parents gave all of us help with buying our first homes but when it came to my turn they were not doing so well and couldn't help but said that this amount was owed to me. I have brought it up in times of need for a decade but they have been unable to help (which means they either dont want to or cant afford to which doesn't bode well for the business or their care for me)

I feel bad that i could be depriving someone of winning should my parents lose their court case (its against a former employee)

My parents are very closed lipped about the status of the business, we have no idea of its value, how well it is doing etc and it is in a country where we do not speak the language.

My parents have asked me to lie for them to a bank which may have constituted fraud depending on what they did. (im not to sure about this one as google isnt hepful)

In short I don't really trust that my parents have my best interests at heart here. On the other hand i a, want to be supportive and b, don't want to miss out on a portion of a potentially valuable business.

However there does not appear to be any risk of accepting the gift to me personally other then losing the shares themselves but i would have got them for free anyway.

My parents are in their early 70s. A lot of this (like me realising i don't trust them) is very new and something i am only just realising as i was working out why this makes me uncomfortable. I'm getting the impression that everyone is very impatient with me wanting to just go along with everything but the pressure is making things worse.

So can anyone help me with my thought process?

Sorry this has been so rambling, trying to type while looking after two small children.

OP posts:
EishetChayil · 20/09/2021 15:13

Sorry, but this sounds dodgy as hell.

Palavah · 20/09/2021 15:14

There's a lot here, but at the risk of stating the obvious do not lie to the bank or do anything which may constitute fraud.

StopPickingMyCherries · 20/09/2021 15:16

They are doing it for them, not you
Don't get involved

MatildaTheCat · 20/09/2021 15:17

You need very specific legal advice. You could be liable for costs, tax or anything else.

They sound very dodgy. If it’s an altruistic gift they won’t mind you getting legal advice and doing things properly.

Edinvillian · 20/09/2021 15:17

If you've got shares in the company, could the ex employee come after you too?

Hopdathelf · 20/09/2021 15:20

Have you actually spoken to siblings about this? You say you have an impression about what everyone wants but the reality could be very different. Perhaps they haven’t appreciated the difficulties. Banding together to do a bit of due diligence might either ease your fears or make it easier to push back.

Original poster
Morningstar66 · 20/09/2021 15:30

I have spoken to my siblings. one already has shares that they paid for so is happy to get more for free. One i have had a longer discussion but is happy to just go with the flow.

re the bank fraud thing. i refused obviously. the lying did not sit well with me even without anything else.

I am confident that the litigant cannot go after us for the money. The country has a similar system to here in that shareholder are not held accountable for company debt, the old risk is to the value of the shares if the business fails but as i have not invested any money this would make no difference to me.

OP posts:
Original poster
Morningstar66 · 20/09/2021 15:32

to make things clear, we are all middle aged adults now so its not like aour parents have abandoned us or anything they just weren't the most involved parents and were off doing their own thing when we were children. I dont feel deprived or anything im just recognising, now i have a family of my own that the relationship is really lacking.

OP posts:
Cuddlyrottweiler · 20/09/2021 15:32

God no! It's not a gift for you, it's them using you to protect themselves while giving you exactly zero benefits.

tanstaafl · 20/09/2021 15:34

They’re in a different country, wouldn’t some sort of Articles of Business code prevent foreign ownership of shares?

Assuming it’s a family business and not on a stock market of any kind are the shares worth anything or are they simply so they can pay themselves dividends on the shares?

But the power of attorney aspect is interesting. I suspect if they win their case, you may discover later that ‘you’ signed the shares back to them.

Original poster
Morningstar66 · 20/09/2021 15:37

I have outlined my hesitancy to my parents via email saying that i am reluctant to go into a business arrangement with them considering they haven't been the most trustworthy people with me. Also from my perspective they have had lots of court cases regarding the business and complain about the financial difficulties so it doesn't look sensible to get involved. If i have other, more reliable behaviour from them to base a better opinion on then perhaps it would be fine. Like i said they have not been very open about their work and perhaps if they were i would not feel like this.

OP posts:
Legoninjago1 · 20/09/2021 15:38

I wouldn't. I think you're being extremely sensible.

Granllanog · 20/09/2021 15:39

I would want nothing to do with this..........sounds dodgy as hell

Original poster
Morningstar66 · 20/09/2021 15:40

''But the power of attorney aspect is interesting. I suspect if they win their case, you may discover later that ‘you’ signed the shares back to them.''

Very good point, this is exactly the sort of thing they would do thinking about it and we wouldn't even find out about it.

I do worry that i'm just bitter about the money thing and finding reasons to be difficult. My husband has pointed out that they have done very little to make me trust them and plenty to worry about.

OP posts:
Original poster
Morningstar66 · 20/09/2021 15:41

The business is not publicly traded no so i suppose it would be a family business type situation.

OP posts:
Original poster
Morningstar66 · 20/09/2021 15:45

Their is a business lawyer involved who has assured us their is no risk to us. But it doesnt feel right.

The thing i keep thinking is that in 15-20 years when/if we inherit the business there maybe some value and i am conscious i could be throwing a decent some of money if large chunks of it are owned already, i don't want to deprive my kids of that as it would make a big difference to us .

My sensible brain however is thinking their wont be much value involved anyway so not worth the hassle.

OP posts:
SeasonFinale · 20/09/2021 15:51

It makes no sense whatsoever. If it is a Limited Liability company then as you say the loss is limited whether they own the shares or several people own the shares.

Thus it will always be the company that owns the money not you, your siblings or your parents and thus all the shares can be held by the current shareholders.

It very much sounds like they are being pursued in their personal capacity for something and are therefore attempting to put assets out of the reach of creditors.

Paq · 20/09/2021 15:51

@MatildaTheCat

You need very specific legal advice. You could be liable for costs, tax or anything else.

They sound very dodgy. If it’s an altruistic gift they won’t mind you getting legal advice and doing things properly.

This.

SeasonFinale · 20/09/2021 15:51

*owes the money not owns

2bazookas · 20/09/2021 15:52

Just say no thanks. Don't enter into any arrangements, signing documants etc.

QueeniesCroft · 20/09/2021 15:59

I wouldn't accept it. I would also look at making sure that my refusal was officially recorded somehow, in case my signature was forged.

There are too many things that could go wrong here, and I wouldn't want any part of it. You might be turning down a future windfall, or you might be averting a disaster in the imminent future. The only sensible choice is to refuse, I think.

goodnessidontknow · 20/09/2021 16:09

I agree with most other posters, I would run from this.
The potential for future financial gain isn't worth the worry and risk of stress.
If nothing else, you would be liable for any tax due on dividends paid to shares in your name regardless of whether you ever see the money.

waybill · 20/09/2021 16:26

I'm not familiar with overseas laws but I do know a bit about UK companies. It sounds to me like you are being handed a grenade with the pin out.

I'd stand well clear if I were you.

Notaroadrunner · 20/09/2021 16:38

I wouldn't want it either. It's clearly not being given as a gift in the sense that they wish you all to benefit from the shares. It sounds dodgy, your gut tells you so, therefore steer clear.

OneTC · 20/09/2021 16:39

This doesn't qualify as a gift

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