AIBU- to ask my MIL not to visit anymore

[Sleeplessem]

Not exactly AIBU, more like wwyd here?

I’m 30 weeks pregnant with dc2, high risk pregnancy due to low birth weight and early delivery of dc1. Double jabbed. MIL watches DC1 whilst DH and I wfh once a week (due to nursery not having space). MIL is double jabbed.

So in DHs extended family, unfortunately there has been a bereavement due to covid. Underlying health conditions, family didn’t believe in covid so weren’t vaccinated. Relative in 70s contracted covid and ended up in ICU and never recovered.
Relative caught it at a family wedding. MIL also now attends family weddings/ gathering unmasked. MIL will also most likely visit the family of the bereaved to pay respects.

So here’s the question, should we say to her please don’t come around to watch DD if you have gone to a wedding and please don’t come if you go to the house of the bereaved (especially as they aren’t vaxxed and have been in close contact with someone who sadly died from covid)? Or is that a bit extra or do you think asking her to take one or two rapid response tests a week would be sufficient a mitigant?

My concern is just you are higher risk in 3rd trimester and given my past obstetric history. I was advised by the high risk midwife to wfh for the third trimester too just to err on the side of caution.

Wwyd?

YABU- Rapid response tests would be fine
YANBU- don’t chance it

I think you should ask your midwife and or doctor. I think telling her not to come round is a bit harsh, but if I were in her situation I would do whatever I could to keep you all safe. Surely she could just ring the family to offer condolences and wear masks at crowded events if it made you feel safer?

I did they said it’s personal preference at the end of the day.

It’s a cultural thing to pay respects in person so on the phone wouldn’t happen. She wouldn’t wear a mask at a wedding, especially if everyone else wasn’t. My concerns is that there are a lot of Covid deniers in the family so they won’t be vaxxed and that’s how the relative caught it and ultimately died. Also given I’m at an already higher risk of low birth weight I’m wary of anything compounding it.

Also thinking about it I don’t think she’d understand how to take a rapid response test and likely wouldn’t listen to instruction

This all feels a bit tenuous to me. The person who died was in their 70s and had underlying health conditions?! And you don’t exactly need to be tinfoil hat wearer to not want to wear a mask at a family wedding!

The latest figures from PHE for 22/06 - 12/09 show that in the over 50s there were 68,445 Delta infections in the double vaccinated and 7,575 in the unvaccinated, and 1515 v 512 deaths respectively. They’re all there for anyone to read: www.gov.uk/government/publications/investigation-of-novel-sars-cov-2-variant-variant-of-concern-20201201

The jabbyjab is clearly not a magical panacea. Covid has been endemic for sometime. Is this approach to risk management how you’re willing to live the rest of your lives?

@SweetBabyCheeses99 yes family member was late 60s/ maybe early 70s not precise on age, had underlying medical conditions and didn’t believe in Covid so wasn’t vaccinated and contracted the virus at a wedding and got v poorly from there. Extended family members also don’t believe in the virus/ think it’s a conspiracy, not all but some.

Life? no, but the last 2/3 months of my high risk pregnancy? yes. High risk midwife advised against going to the office as social distancing had relaxed and ‘night life’ back open.

Can you discuss it with your MIL, tell her your concerns and she what she suggests?

@Halfarsedwoman

Can you discuss it with your MIL, tell her your concerns and she what she suggests?

She can’t speak English so I personally can’t. DH will have to but he’s so weak in his mother tongue (whole other issue). I’m conscious of it coming across like an ultimatum, you know like either see you grandchild or go to weddings and pay your respects. I get that it’s almost like that but it’s not from a menacing and punitive way. Hope that makes sense.

She’s also wouldn’t quite understand what being high risk means or the concerns about having a small baby- she didn’t get it with dc1, not through malice but education I think x

@Sleeplessem I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. There is more and more evidence coming out regarding the dangers of catching covid whilst pregnant, particularly in the third trimester, and given that you're already high risk I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask family members to take extra precautions around you. I'm approaching third trimester now and plan on limiting contact with other people until baby is born, regardless of who they are ☺️

Find alternative childcare/take holiday for those days

Those were my thoughts @Kayl23 and @WoozySnoozy might have to work flexibly Monday / Tuesday due to short notice and meetings in the diary already but after 2 weeks or so and if she took a test I think it would be fine for her to come around again and anything wedding wise she’d have plenty of notice a wedding is around the corner so can either decide to go and we can take a days hols or not go and come x

@SweetBabyCheeses99

This all feels a bit tenuous to me. The person who died was in their 70s and had underlying health conditions?! And you don’t exactly need to be tinfoil hat wearer to not want to wear a mask at a family wedding!

The latest figures from PHE for 22/06 - 12/09 show that in the over 50s there were 68,445 Delta infections in the double vaccinated and 7,575 in the unvaccinated, and 1515 v 512 deaths respectively. They’re all there for anyone to read: www.gov.uk/government/publications/investigation-of-novel-sars-cov-2-variant-variant-of-concern-20201201

The jabbyjab is clearly not a magical panacea. Covid has been endemic for sometime. Is this approach to risk management how you’re willing to live the rest of your lives?

That last sentence is a bit weird. The OP is clearly concerned as she is in the last trimester and is high risk. That's her concern - not the rest of her life

Nah not unreasonable I would do the same. Your health and the babies come first. If they are anti vax and don’t believe in Covid at this stage, there will be no telling them otherwise and it’s their choice, but it’s your choice to limit in person contact too. In saying that I probably wouldn’t have her minding your child if you are concerned about all the above. It might not work out effectively banning her then expecting her to mind your child. Tricky situation all around!

I think I’d try and phrase it along the lines that you’ll make alternative arrangements for childcare and see her on such-and-such a date. Express it as a foregone conclusion that you won’t see her for whatever length after the funeral.

Otherwise it does sound very much like an ultimatum, or that you’re trying to emotionally blackmail her into not going.

It’s not unreasonable that you expect her to stay away for a period. But it’s also not unreasonable that she will visit with the bereaved.

@Yummymummy2020

Nah not unreasonable I would do the same. Your health and the babies come first. If they are anti vax and don’t believe in Covid at this stage, there will be no telling them otherwise and it’s their choice, but it’s your choice to limit in person contact too. In saying that I probably wouldn’t have her minding your child if you are concerned about all the above. It might not work out effectively banning her then expecting her to mind your child. Tricky situation all around!

Yeah I agree it’s their choice, i mean it’s ridiculous, but still their choice. But I think if there are weddings she can let us know if she’s going in advance and we can sort something else rather than risk it.

She didn’t come around this week after the funeral, we managed (I say that very loosely) whilst wfh. She’s going to do a lat flow test again Sunday evening and if all clear she going to watch dd Monday. Luckily she’s not anti vax and wore a mask at the funeral so could have gone a lot worse xx

Looking at figures in that way is meaningless. They need to be considered as a % of the vaccinated and unvaccinated.

The vaccine isn’t a magic pass to not getting COVID but if you look at the figures as a % of the vaccinated population, it does hugely reduce hospitalisation and death.

“She can’t speak English so I personally can’t. DH will have to but he’s so weak in his mother tongue (whole other issue).”

Sorry slight off topic.... but... your DH can’t communicate properly with his mother?...

@SweetBabyCheeses99

This all feels a bit tenuous to me. The person who died was in their 70s and had underlying health conditions?! And you don’t exactly need to be tinfoil hat wearer to not want to wear a mask at a family wedding!

The latest figures from PHE for 22/06 - 12/09 show that in the over 50s there were 68,445 Delta infections in the double vaccinated and 7,575 in the unvaccinated, and 1515 v 512 deaths respectively. They’re all there for anyone to read: www.gov.uk/government/publications/investigation-of-novel-sars-cov-2-variant-variant-of-concern-20201201

The jabbyjab is clearly not a magical panacea. Covid has been endemic for sometime. Is this approach to risk management how you’re willing to live the rest of your lives?

Let’s talk about what’s a bit tenuous: this INCREDIBLY interesting way to massage the data. Look, OP, do what you feel necessary, on doctor’s advice to protect yourself, but don’t listen to this shite.

First of all, this post - it’s bad manners to link to a page with 23 technical briefings, many of which have 60+ pages, so no one can check your numbers, least of all OP. So I just went with the latest, Technical Briefing 23. Its numbers cover February to September (the one before that covered February to August, not sure where you found something only covering June to September). And from FEBRUARY to September, here are the numbers. AND maybe it would help to, I don’t know, mention that our vaccination rate for over-50s is 95%, which is a bit important, as @AllieTM pointed out.
So, delta cases in vaccinated over 50: 71,991
Unvaccinated over 50: 8,551
And those 95% of over 50s represent some 21,000,000 individuals.

I cannot actually believe this has to be explained but if almost an entire population (over 50s) is vaccinated, yet the disease isn’t eradicated and the vaccine isn’t 100% effective (no vaccine ever has been, I think?), then a significant portion who now get the disease will have been vaccinated, even if it’s only the 5% for whom the vaccine isn’t effective (Pfizer for example had 95% efficacy). Actually…
71,991 of 21,000,000 = .03%
I cannot believe this shite. It’s SIGNIFICANTLY less than the percentage for whom the vaccine may not work. Good fucking grief.

And please dont bother responding with an argument about small numbers or small percentages. These boards and this site were rampant for weeks with posters terrified of getting the vaccine because of the risk of a blood clot.
Blood clot risk from Astra Zeneca, which tons were willing to risk death by COVID to avoid: 1 in 100,000.
Risk of OP’s MIL getting COVID (without extra wedding and funeral risks) as we’ve just calculated: 3 in 1000.

OP should feel free to make her choice but not because of emotionally blackmailing shite from some poster who accuses her of the wrong “approach to risk management.” Actually, acting emotionally manipulative with carefully selected but incomplete data IS the wrong approach to risk management.

SOURCES (because I don’t fuck around with one link that has 1000 pages on it):
I’ve attached a picture of the sheet with the highlighted numbers and here’s the EXACT link to what I used, from your link. Numbers are on page 19 (of 61), so no one has to hunt. I’m fine with being proven wrong if someone has proof.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1018547/Technical_Briefing_23_21_09_16.pdf
I’ve included the figure I chose to use for the blood clots (107 in 10 million after first Astra Zeneca dose from BMJ) covered in this article: www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/27/blood-clot-risk-greater-after-covid-infection-than-after-vaccination)
Here’s where I got the “93% equals 19 million people over 50” figure, on page 3:
www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/07/COVID-19-weekly-announced-vaccinations-01-July-2021.pdf
And where I got that 95% of those over 50 are vaccinated so I used 21,000,000:
www.bbc.com/news/health-56849874

OP,

I would do what you feel is best together with your medical team and I simply wouldn't get overly caught up in other people's feelings.

Repeat the medical teams advice to be be very cautious, and that is what you will be doing to the letter.

I simply wouldn't entertain the hurt feelings of anyone if they dont understand or get it.

Not your problem.

@tabulahrasa

“She can’t speak English so I personally can’t. DH will have to but he’s so weak in his mother tongue (whole other issue).”

Sorry slight off topic.... but... your DH can’t communicate properly with his mother?...

So this is a particular annoyance of mine. Small back story, so he wasn’t born in the UK, moved in y3/4 primary school. So he grew up speaking his mother tongue. His mother tongue is more of a dialect than formal language, but it’s quite rough around the edges so a lot of more formal words don’t exist as it would be expected for more formal occasions that one would converse in the ‘formal’ language of the region, but DH can’t speak that, although they are very similar. MIL never went to school ever (so they don’t have v in depth conversations) and as he left as a kid so he has quite a limited vocab, so he often miscommunicates things, further compounded by the fact he’s completely half soaked at times and just tunes out 🙄

**oops changed user name for another potentially outing post, but the above is from me 🙂🙂

I'm with you OP, high risk pregnancy 32 weeks and I've reduced contact with people and mostly just seeing close family who are careful. It's taken me 7 years to get to this stage and I don't care if I'm called neurotic, I'll do whatever ever it takes to reduce the risk, even if it means offending some people. YANBU

Sorry - it had nothing at all to do with anything,

I’ve known people who aren’t literate in a language their parent speaks because they weren’t educated in it, but tbh I was a bit flabbergasted that there’s a language barrier like that, that stops them having proper conversations.