AIBU to consider Tring Park, Arts Ed, Sylvia Young

[icouldusesomehelphere]

Posting in AIBU for traffic as Secondary Ed board is a bit quiet.

My DS attends a regional independent primary school - all good.
It's rather an academic school with extra-curriculum emphasis sport (sport seems to be the dominant extra-curriculum activity in most independent schools!)
He'll continue through to sixth form at his current school if we do nothing.

However my DS hates sport & is heavily into performing arts, arts & music. He attends musical theatre, screen-acting & ballet classes.

He wants to be an actor & has already had some professional experience through his agent - a few small roles in TV series & a feature film.

There are far fewer boys in his performing arts classes and he doesn't have many male friends as his hobbies are predominantly attended by females.

We are obviously looking at performing arts schools - arts Ed, Tring Park & Sylvia Young. He has done some summer schools at those.

We don't know anyone who has been to any of these schools as a full-time student, & we're looking for some real world experience. It's difficult to get an honest warts-and-all-views, as the competition is so high.

He has auditions to a couple in the coming months & we may apply to the other.
Obviously he has not got in yet, but just thinking it all through...

We are struggling with the following:
i) specialising early - should we wait until post-16 orpost-18 drama school
ii) it would necessitate a major move for our family as we would not want him to board.
We have no other children & our jobs are flexible in terms of location.

If your child goes to any of these schools, what are your views? Would you chose a performing arts school again, if you knew then what you know now?
Thanks 🙏

Excellent schools, and even if he doesn’t make it (most who aspire to acting don’t, so I hope he realises the reality) an arts and creative education is a wonderful thing!

He’ll be with others who love what he loves, and he won’t have to apologise. I hope he has a great time.

NB. A member of my family attended Tring, but for ballet training, and some time ago. And was a boarding school pupil.

I went through these thought processes a few years ago. Of the ones you mentioned we liked Tring best as it had, we believed, a better focus on academics but that is a very relative term as none are great academically. In the end we decided to stick with a “mainstream” school and continue with the extra curricular activities on the basis that it is fantastically difficult to make any kind of living out of performance of any kind so it is vital to get other qualifications under the belt. Luckily my child decided in the end to keep the performance activities as a hobby and is active in these at university now studying something entirely unrelated.

Have you tried posting on balletforum.com for advice sbout Tring and other performing arts schools. I know you aren't look at it from a ballet perspective but you could get up to date advice on the academics, accommodation and costs. Also have you considered Urdang or the Hammond school near Chester.

Depending on what he's looking for you may want to think about funding. This link www.theukrules.co.uk/rules/lifestyle/education/student-finance/dance-and-drama-awards-funding.html givrs some information and although it seems to focus on dance schools it does include places that do musical theatre.

Arts Ed used to restrict any professional work for under 18s. Might be worth asking its current policy .

@SMabbutt

Have you tried posting on balletforum.com for advice sbout Tring and other performing arts schools. I know you aren't look at it from a ballet perspective but you could get up to date advice on the academics, accommodation and costs. Also have you considered Urdang or the Hammond school near Chester.

Depending on what he's looking for you may want to think about funding. This link www.theukrules.co.uk/rules/lifestyle/education/student-finance/dance-and-drama-awards-funding.html givrs some information and although it seems to focus on dance schools it does include places that do musical theatre.

Thanks for that & I will definitely have a look. I think dance is also part of the problem, so much of the advice & funding is about the dance route. DS loves dance & was offered a place on a prestigious pre-vocational training route for ballet but he loves acting more & didn't want to specialise. The reality is he may not get into any of the schools - it's a tough decision whether to expose him to that

@KaycePollard

Excellent schools, and even if he doesn’t make it (most who aspire to acting don’t, so I hope he realises the reality) an arts and creative education is a wonderful thing!

He’ll be with others who love what he loves, and he won’t have to apologise. I hope he has a great time.

Thank you! It's so lovely to hear someone else things a creative education has real worth

@VanCleefArpels

I went through these thought processes a few years ago. Of the ones you mentioned we liked Tring best as it had, we believed, a better focus on academics but that is a very relative term as none are great academically. In the end we decided to stick with a “mainstream” school and continue with the extra curricular activities on the basis that it is fantastically difficult to make any kind of living out of performance of any kind so it is vital to get other qualifications under the belt. Luckily my child decided in the end to keep the performance activities as a hobby and is active in these at university now studying something entirely unrelated.

It's a tough decision isn't it?! Thanks for giving the alternative view

@icouldusesomehelphere, I have a DC who attended one of the schools you mention for part of their secondary school career, and we know a number of children at all 3 schools - some blissfully happy, some not.

It's a difficult decision, and in many ways you won't know whether a vocational school will suit your child unless you try. My DC moved back to a "mainstream" school before GCSEs, but I don't regret trying the vocational route even though it didn't work out in the end; if we hadn't tried, there would always have been a "what if" at the back of our minds. However I think you need to go into it with your eyes open and with a Plan B in case it doesn't work out. The following are worth considering:

Academic education
The academics at all 3 schools are good, and I know very bright children who have been stretched academically and achieved well at all of them. However, the choice of subjects is necessarily restricted - these are small schools, and the vocational timetable eats into the school week. For example, usually only one MFL offered, limited choice of humanities, triple science not always possible (Arts Ed only offers double, and triple science at SY runs as an after-school session).

Vocational education
Although the scholarships for these schools are extremely competitive, it isn't actually that difficult to secure a full fee-paying place; particularly for boys, where there are fewer applicants.
I would be wary of assuming that the vocational training at these schools provides everything needed. Based on experience, many of the children at these schools are also training outside school. Sometimes this because they love it and want to do more, but sometimes this is to fill gaps in the school's provision. For example, not all of these schools offer individual singing lessons, so the serious singers attend private lessons outside school. For dancers, not all of these schools offer graded dance classes and exams, so the dancers attend graded classes outside school.
I would also be wary of assuming that vocational-quality training can only be accessed by attending a vocational school. This may have been the case when these schools were founded, but there are now a number of extracurricular audition-entry PA training programmes that enable a child to access a very high standard of PA training while still attending an ordinary school.

Extracurricular activities
Sport and extracurricular activities unrelated to performing arts are in short supply at these schools. This suits some children, but it does mean that the opportunity to discover other non-PA activities that they enjoy can be limited. A child that hates sport at 11 may not always feel that way when they are older.

Professional work
Although Arts Ed and Tring Park don't officially encourage pupils to work professionally, both will allow pupils to work under certain circumstances. Sylvia Young encourages professional work and is well set up to support the academic education of children working professionally.

Environment
Vocational schools are not for the faint-hearted. A creative, arts-based education, wonderful though it is, does not necessarily mean a nurturing environment. A vocational school can be just as competitive an atmosphere as a highly-selective academic school, and bullying is just as likely to occur in these schools as in mainstream schools. A child who is used to being the best actor or dancer in their school/class can suddenly find they are surrounded by a cohort who are more able or more accomplished - and this can take its toll on self-esteem. It's worth thinking long and hard about whether your child will be spurred on by this sort of competition or discouraged by it. In my experience it is easier, though still not always plain sailing, for a child who is already successful professionally and is used to the (quite frankly pretty brutal) world of professional auditions.

Future career
Unlike dance, where vocational training from a young age is necessary for those with professional aspirations, there is no particular career advantage to early training for acting. The numbers of child actors who transition successfully to adult acting careers is small (for straight acting at least - musical theatre is a little different). Most drama schools prefer their students to have a broader life experience, and attending a PA school can be a negative in this respect - it can be viewed as too specialised or sheltered.

Based on our experience and the experiences of friends, I think there are only a few good reasons to consider a vocational performing arts secondary school for a child whose predominant interest is acting:

• Your child has a busy professional career and the mainstream school they attend is not supportive and makes it difficult to get permission to work.
• As a way of accessing a better-quality academic education if your local mainstream options are poor.
• You can't access high-quality PA training any other way.

I would definitely think long and hard before uprooting your entire family just so that your child can attend one of these schools.

Meant to say, feel free to pm me.

[quote Otterbox]@icouldusesomehelphere, I have a DC who attended one of the schools you mention for part of their secondary school career, and we know a number of children at all 3 schools - some blissfully happy, some not.

It's a difficult decision, and in many ways you won't know whether a vocational school will suit your child unless you try. My DC moved back to a "mainstream" school before GCSEs, but I don't regret trying the vocational route even though it didn't work out in the end; if we hadn't tried, there would always have been a "what if" at the back of our minds. However I think you need to go into it with your eyes open and with a Plan B in case it doesn't work out. The following are worth considering:

Academic education
The academics at all 3 schools are good, and I know very bright children who have been stretched academically and achieved well at all of them. However, the choice of subjects is necessarily restricted - these are small schools, and the vocational timetable eats into the school week. For example, usually only one MFL offered, limited choice of humanities, triple science not always possible (Arts Ed only offers double, and triple science at SY runs as an after-school session).

Vocational education
Although the scholarships for these schools are extremely competitive, it isn't actually that difficult to secure a full fee-paying place; particularly for boys, where there are fewer applicants.
I would be wary of assuming that the vocational training at these schools provides everything needed. Based on experience, many of the children at these schools are also training outside school. Sometimes this because they love it and want to do more, but sometimes this is to fill gaps in the school's provision. For example, not all of these schools offer individual singing lessons, so the serious singers attend private lessons outside school. For dancers, not all of these schools offer graded dance classes and exams, so the dancers attend graded classes outside school.
I would also be wary of assuming that vocational-quality training can only be accessed by attending a vocational school. This may have been the case when these schools were founded, but there are now a number of extracurricular audition-entry PA training programmes that enable a child to access a very high standard of PA training while still attending an ordinary school.

Extracurricular activities
Sport and extracurricular activities unrelated to performing arts are in short supply at these schools. This suits some children, but it does mean that the opportunity to discover other non-PA activities that they enjoy can be limited. A child that hates sport at 11 may not always feel that way when they are older.

Professional work
Although Arts Ed and Tring Park don't officially encourage pupils to work professionally, both will allow pupils to work under certain circumstances. Sylvia Young encourages professional work and is well set up to support the academic education of children working professionally.

Environment
Vocational schools are not for the faint-hearted. A creative, arts-based education, wonderful though it is, does not necessarily mean a nurturing environment. A vocational school can be just as competitive an atmosphere as a highly-selective academic school, and bullying is just as likely to occur in these schools as in mainstream schools. A child who is used to being the best actor or dancer in their school/class can suddenly find they are surrounded by a cohort who are more able or more accomplished - and this can take its toll on self-esteem. It's worth thinking long and hard about whether your child will be spurred on by this sort of competition or discouraged by it. In my experience it is easier, though still not always plain sailing, for a child who is already successful professionally and is used to the (quite frankly pretty brutal) world of professional auditions.

Future career
Unlike dance, where vocational training from a young age is necessary for those with professional aspirations, there is no particular career advantage to early training for acting. The numbers of child actors who transition successfully to adult acting careers is small (for straight acting at least - musical theatre is a little different). Most drama schools prefer their students to have a broader life experience, and attending a PA school can be a negative in this respect - it can be viewed as too specialised or sheltered.

Based on our experience and the experiences of friends, I think there are only a few good reasons to consider a vocational performing arts secondary school for a child whose predominant interest is acting:

• Your child has a busy professional career and the mainstream school they attend is not supportive and makes it difficult to get permission to work.
• As a way of accessing a better-quality academic education if your local mainstream options are poor.
• You can't access high-quality PA training any other way.

I would definitely think long and hard before uprooting your entire family just so that your child can attend one of these schools.[/quote]
Wow! What an amazing response. Thank you so much. Your perspective reflects some of our concerns, especially about specialising too early. Lots and lots to think about.
I can't thank you enough for taking the time to provide such a thoughtful response

Unlike dance, where vocational training from a young age is necessary for those with professional aspirations, there is no particular career advantage to early training for acting. The numbers of child actors who transition successfully to adult acting careers is small (for straight acting at least - musical theatre is a little different). Most drama schools prefer their students to have a broader life experience, and attending a PA school can be a negative in this respect - it can be viewed as too specialised or sheltered.

Totally endorse this - I teach actors (sometimes) and come from a family of performers. The two professional dancers in my family did serious training from 11, but the 2 actors in my family really only hit their strides at around 25.

And I have a friend who was quite successful as a child actor, playing "young" till their mid-twenties. But no real career in adult roles (although this was partly their choice).

What other options are there? I get a lot of students who came through NYT, and the annual Scarborough festival. Because the other option is to do loads of extra-curricular drama/theatre, and do a Theatre/Drama degree at university, doing lots of extra-curricular (driving us crazy!) then audition for a conservatoire at MA level or just get straight into the industry from university.

Sorry this is a bit if an essay but I hope it’s helpful.

Our experience with DD was that from the age of around 13/14, she was spending increasing amounts of time on PA, and that although she had a lot of friends, she wasn’t able to do much outside school because of her other commitments,

She joined Tring Park at 16 as a boarder, and it was utterly brilliant. She found her tribe, has made the very best of friends, continued to do well academically, and had offers from Acting Conservatoires (took a couple of years though).

In hindsight, if we had the money, and we lived nearer, I think we would have been happy for her to go at 14 as a day student.

It’s a fair comment re the need to be resilient, and there are students with fantastic acting experience, think Hollywood blockbusters. Also every other person seemed to have been in either Billy Elliott or Matilda!

DD hadn’t done more than perform at the local town hall, but she was offered a scholarship, and was presented with the acting award when she left. So you have to not be intimidated by the experience of others.

We didn’t look at any other schools as DD knew she wanted to study 3 A levels alongside the vocational work. I think there are something like 20+ A level subjects you can choose from, which was about the same as her old school offered.

The teachers DD had were excellent, and you do need to make the time count, all academic subjects are covered in half the day, the other half is for vocational work.
So it’s long days and focussed lessons to get through it all.

DD achieved 3A grades and has chosen to take an academic degree, with a view to getting into acting professionally when she’s a bit older as we all know how precarious the career of an actor can be.

My advice would be to go to the schools with an open mind, enjoy the auditions, and see what feels right. But be cautious about taking this route if your DS is still very young as he might change his mind and swapping schools can be pretty disruptive to his education.

Also anecdotally, most students at TP are boarders, and a number of DDs friends lived locally but chose to board - so just something else to be aware of.

We went theough all. This with ds (now 30) and dd now 19.
They opted to stay at school and now ds is a plumber but dd is doing a degree in performing arts and absolutely loving it and I'm happy because she will have a degree even if she does go into the business which I think she will.
Have you looked at BOA in Brum. It's a state school for performing arts.

Do you have other children who would also be moved to facilitate this? If so, I think you need to consider boarding or not doing it. Otherwise, I don't see why not.

@Tringaling

Sorry this is a bit if an essay but I hope it’s helpful.

Our experience with DD was that from the age of around 13/14, she was spending increasing amounts of time on PA, and that although she had a lot of friends, she wasn’t able to do much outside school because of her other commitments,

She joined Tring Park at 16 as a boarder, and it was utterly brilliant. She found her tribe, has made the very best of friends, continued to do well academically, and had offers from Acting Conservatoires (took a couple of years though).

In hindsight, if we had the money, and we lived nearer, I think we would have been happy for her to go at 14 as a day student.

It’s a fair comment re the need to be resilient, and there are students with fantastic acting experience, think Hollywood blockbusters. Also every other person seemed to have been in either Billy Elliott or Matilda!

DD hadn’t done more than perform at the local town hall, but she was offered a scholarship, and was presented with the acting award when she left. So you have to not be intimidated by the experience of others.

We didn’t look at any other schools as DD knew she wanted to study 3 A levels alongside the vocational work. I think there are something like 20+ A level subjects you can choose from, which was about the same as her old school offered.

The teachers DD had were excellent, and you do need to make the time count, all academic subjects are covered in half the day, the other half is for vocational work.
So it’s long days and focussed lessons to get through it all.

DD achieved 3A grades and has chosen to take an academic degree, with a view to getting into acting professionally when she’s a bit older as we all know how precarious the career of an actor can be.

My advice would be to go to the schools with an open mind, enjoy the auditions, and see what feels right. But be cautious about taking this route if your DS is still very young as he might change his mind and swapping schools can be pretty disruptive to his education.

Also anecdotally, most students at TP are boarders, and a number of DDs friends lived locally but chose to board - so just something else to be aware of.

Thank you - this is really helpful - I noted the vast majority of children sen to board as the days are long! Thanks again x

@Ledkr

We went theough all. This with ds (now 30) and dd now 19. They opted to stay at school and now ds is a plumber but dd is doing a degree in performing arts and absolutely loving it and I'm happy because she will have a degree even if she does go into the business which I think she will. Have you looked at BOA in Brum. It's a state school for performing arts.

Thanks, I'll look at BOA X

@LittleGwyneth

Do you have other children who would also be moved to facilitate this? If so, I think you need to consider boarding or not doing it. Otherwise, I don't see why not.

No other kids and definitely don't want him to board. I know it's right for some families, but not ours.

My DS did the audition rounds last year for a Y7 place but for dance courses and is now boarding at another ballet school. He was offered a funded place for Tring park but we turned it down to accept another school. So far (although it is early days!) it has all been smooth sailing. My understanding also was that for acting there was no real urgency to go away at 11. If it wasn’t ballet for my DS I would not have considered sending him so young! Good luck, there is no harm in doing the auditions and going from there!