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People can stop panicking about this Imperial measurements thing!

374 replies

Echobelly · 17/09/2021 22:30

The proposal to reintroduce Imperial measurements is a fucking stupid idea and waste of time but Lordy, my social media is alight with people going 'OMG, they're going to force everyone to learn Imperial and it's ageist and ableist and will wreck trade and it'll be so expensive to recalibrate all out scales' etc etc.

I mean, hold your horses folks - they're allowing people to use imperial which wasn't allowed under the EU, just so they can say we can now do something we couldn't do under the EU. It's not being mandated. It's totally empty symbolism.

A handful of red-faced market stall holders will use it to make a point, no one else will care, nothing else will happen. I mean, I hate this bloody government and this ridiculous, retrograde idea but please be better than those people who don't read beyond the headlines.

Sorry, just the inaccuracy of response to this is bugging me!

OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 18/09/2021 21:18

@Theoldprospector

Schools teach metric and imperial.

People still use both metric and imperial, and I very much doubt we will move to the metric system for all measurements any time soon.

People would not generally be happy measuring time using a metric system.

What is the metric system for time???

The SI unit is s. Seconds.

Defined:

'The exact modern definition, from the National Institute of Standards and Technology is: "The second, symbol s, is the SI unit of time. It is defined by taking the fixed numerical value of the cesium frequency ΔνCs, the unperturbed ground-state hyperfine transition frequency of the cesium 133 atom, to be 9192631770 when expressed in the unit Hz, which is equal to s−1.'

Have you run out of caesium-133?

Agree that can be troublesome.

Annoyedanddissapointed · 18/09/2021 21:21

They don't give a fuck. The whole thing makes us look like petty dickheads.

That ship has sailed already🙈

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2021 21:23

Am baffled as to why seconds are too modern and all wrong.

The 24 hour clock with 60s is a min and 24 hours (give or take- leap years!) is a day.

The day length is to do with how long it takes the earth to complete a full rotation. Day night. Human. One of the most basic things that all life on the planet more or less is fundamentally linked to. See also. Seasons. How hot or cold it is around the world. Earth, sun.

Physics stuff. Interesting to find out how it all works? No?

I've only ever known hour minute second.

What's the imperial system then?

Lockdownbear · 18/09/2021 21:24

I wonder what the history is that when you go below seconds its 100s of second.

Does time ie hours, minutes, seconds not have some relationship to angles, a fraction of a degree is a second?
Someone please correct / educate me if I'm wrong.

Annoyedanddissapointed · 18/09/2021 21:24

I thought that the time bit was a joke😳

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2021 21:26

@HalzTangz

I have only every used imperial (I'm 40), so I'm quite happy for it to be brought back
You must have done some maths at school in metric? Surely?

I'm older than you and... We definitely used SI units for maths and all sciences.

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2021 21:32

@Lockdownbear

I wonder what the history is that when you go below seconds its 100s of second.

Does time ie hours, minutes, seconds not have some relationship to angles, a fraction of a degree is a second?
Someone please correct / educate me if I'm wrong.

Yes fraction of degrees are in minutes and seconds.

Trying to remember.

Don't think we did fractions of degrees at school.

At university (looong time ago!) iirc we used degrees etc for most stuff but when you get into angular velocity and stuff like that you use radians.

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2021 21:40

I suppose thinking about it the 360° in a circle means dividing into 1/60ths again and then again makes sense and so the familiar terms mins secs were used but they're not related. Just same names.

Circles are tricky blighters so whichever way you cut it you've got pi which is famous for being in decimal 3.14 etc forever.

So when working in those areas manipulating formulae the mathematical expression used meets the properties of that particular disciple. So you would always with with pi (symbol) and not start writing 3.14 etc all over the place. In small things the inaccuracy is not material but if you're calculating something involved and/ or critical then you would with it all out in the units/ using the conventions that allow for accuracy and then only convert to an actual number at the end in order to minimise the tiny roundings causing bigger differences down the line.

Disclaimer- trying to remember things I learnt over 30 years ago!

Porcupineintherough · 18/09/2021 21:43

What I want is for them to bring back pounds, shillings and pence. And guineas and sovereigns and h'appenies, and bobs and tanners and crowns and all the other coinage I've read about and don't understand. Now that would really make us stand out. Grin

NameChangeforMoneyThings · 18/09/2021 21:59

@NiceGerbil

Am baffled as to why seconds are too modern and all wrong.

The 24 hour clock with 60s is a min and 24 hours (give or take- leap years!) is a day.

The day length is to do with how long it takes the earth to complete a full rotation. Day night. Human. One of the most basic things that all life on the planet more or less is fundamentally linked to. See also. Seasons. How hot or cold it is around the world. Earth, sun.

Physics stuff. Interesting to find out how it all works? No?

I've only ever known hour minute second.

What's the imperial system then?

Isn't the point being made that it's not decimal? We could have 10 decimal hours in a day (that make up the 24 non decimal hours were currently have. Each hour could have 100 decimal minutes. Each decimal minute could have 100 seconds.

We could all decide that was much easier than working out how many minutes are in 3 days 10 hours but no one would like to.

Lockdownbear · 18/09/2021 22:11

Yes,purely speaking of measurement, they're related. In fact, they're the same.

Minutes/Seconds are just a way of dividing a full circle into finer parts. A minute is 1/60th of a full circle and a second is 1/60th of a minute. Each of those things you said - Latitude , Time on a clock, Angle - form a full circle in some way.

Latitude - Take 2d projection of (ideal, spherical) earth, and divide into 60 parts. You'll get the minute (of latitudes). Take that minute, and divide it further into 60 parts, you get the seconds.

Time - Take a circular clock, do the above divisions, you reach the same thing.

Angle - Keeping one arm of an angle fixed, and rotating the other around the intersection point will give you a circular path. This path can again be divided like above, and again, you'll get the same components - minutes and seconds.

Therefore, a minute is 1/60th of a full circle, and a second is 1/60th of a minute,irrespectiveof where they are used. They form the same proportions.

Well I went on an Internet search and found the above written by a brainy person. They are related in the are measurements of a circle. My brains are blew to bits.

I also came across the theory that 360 degrees was chosen several millennia ago because of 365 days in a year and its a number that's easy to divide.

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2021 22:12

That's erm. Eh?

So the argument is that. In the metric system. The totally standard and established and around for...? Sundials were in 12 hours. So long long time.

The metric system SHOULD move to a different method of measuring time. Because you've made up that... Not sure. You're complaining that the metric system uses s as a base unit?

Did you read what I wrote at all? About the sun and the earth? About different mathematical / scientific concepts and measures using metrics that most accurately express the parameters that exist within that discipline and make complex expressions and calculations easier to work with?

You are arguing that you want to get rid of what. Seconds, degrees, etc. Because you think. What exactly?

You think the entire metric and SI system were created to make things difficult for everyone? Rather than use a system that is objectively easier for us (tens- fingers, toes). Including basic things like multiplying dividing. Converting between larger and smaller.

Sorry can you be clearer.

CaptainMarvelDanvers · 18/09/2021 22:13

Tbf I always used imperial, metric was only ever used in maths class.

Only 31.

KG confuses me, tell me someone weighs a 120 pounds and I can imagine holding 120 bags of sugar.

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2021 22:13

Oh sorry that the evil metric people want to get rid of hours and minutes and have us all going.

What's the date and time?
Stardate 4368. 56. Time 9.5774336.

Is that right?

I mean come on!

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2021 22:17

@CaptainMarvelDanvers

Tbf I always used imperial, metric was only ever used in maths class.

Only 31.

KG confuses me, tell me someone weighs a 120 pounds and I can imagine holding 120 bags of sugar.

This is nonsense sorry.

When you did basic sums at school you did stuff like.

What is 7lb 6oz X 9lb 3oz recorded in lb.

I am much older than you and it's nonsense that you did maths like that at school. In the 1990s.

Unless you went to school in. I dunno. An Amish style closed community or something.

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2021 22:18

Oh sorry misread!

I take it back. Apologies.

Annoyedanddissapointed · 18/09/2021 22:25

But bag of sugar is half a kilo. Pound is about 450g. They would need to be holding 108 bags or so? 😁

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2021 22:38

@Lockdownbear

Yes,purely speaking of measurement, they're related. In fact, they're the same.

Minutes/Seconds are just a way of dividing a full circle into finer parts. A minute is 1/60th of a full circle and a second is 1/60th of a minute. Each of those things you said - Latitude , Time on a clock, Angle - form a full circle in some way.

Latitude - Take 2d projection of (ideal, spherical) earth, and divide into 60 parts. You'll get the minute (of latitudes). Take that minute, and divide it further into 60 parts, you get the seconds.

Time - Take a circular clock, do the above divisions, you reach the same thing.

Angle - Keeping one arm of an angle fixed, and rotating the other around the intersection point will give you a circular path. This path can again be divided like above, and again, you'll get the same components - minutes and seconds.

Therefore, a minute is 1/60th of a full circle, and a second is 1/60th of a minute,irrespectiveof where they are used. They form the same proportions.

Well I went on an Internet search and found the above written by a brainy person. They are related in the are measurements of a circle. My brains are blew to bits.

I also came across the theory that 360 degrees was chosen several millennia ago because of 365 days in a year and its a number that's easy to divide.

YY awesome! It's all really interesting esp with the history!

All measurements are, are things humans like so we can get some shared understanding.

In the end the units etc most of them are totally just made up. In the past eg Roman (feet being a good example) it was relatable (ish, my feet area nowhere that big!). Pint- good size for a drink of mild alcohol. Yard, man's stride, again ish.

The thing with those ones is that they evolved so you have eg 16 Oz in a lb, 14 lb in a stone. Hard to work with if you need to do anything involving larger amounts or a bit more involved. But while things at human small scale as it were, perfectly good.

However we've got 10 fingers and toes. We count on our fingers. Babies learn 1- 10 first. Wiggling and counting their toes etc.

10s (decimal) is a much more natural easy way for us to calculate. And our current (successful useful) counting methods are in 10s. Created that way as we have 10 fingers.

10 X 10 is 100
100x 10 is 1000
Etc.

16x 9? (Working with ounces)
14 X 10st 2? (Lb and stone)
3 stone 4 plus 13 lb plus 29 lb

Surely no one can do that without converting it all to the same units first and then converting back? Using 14 or 16 times table...

Metric is natural to us as humans. It's intuitive.

If we had 8 fingers it would all be around 8's. And we'd get it because it's a very familiar way to count.

The metric and SI system are pretty much universal, have enabled massive advances in various sciences. We can share info with others anywhere because essentially we are speaking the same language.

That enables an easy exchange of ideas, theories, advances, technological progress etc etc.

And where decimal is not natural or gives why advantage, or where it would not meet the ability to clearly express and calculate, it stays how it is.

But yeah fuck that. I only understand what a lb of carrots is. And I am outraged that the metric system should even be on the label as well. DAMN YOU EUROCRATS LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE YOU'VE RUINED EVERYTHING!!!

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2021 22:40

Also note that everyone posting is using technology.

Technology that was not created using imperial units.

Burn your devises!!! They have METRIC !!!

The calculator only does decimal!
Using Excel must be a sod as well.
Why can't we use a parchment and quill eh? Bloody Europeans Grin

mustlovegin · 18/09/2021 22:45

red-faced market stall holders

What does this mean?

mustlovegin · 18/09/2021 22:46

Why would anyone 'panic' over this? It's a non-issue for the general public, surely?

Lockdownbear · 18/09/2021 23:00

@NiceGerbil
I'm certainly not arguing we should change time, while I've managed to understand 360 deg, mins and seconds, and the links between Latitude and Angles being measured in degrees, min, secs and time.
If anyone wants to fill me in on bits I'm missing feel free.

But what also amazes me is when we go below seconds measuring time - ie Usain Bolt or any other fast sport like skiing it's measured in a fairly decimal 100s of seconds.

jcyclops · 18/09/2021 23:26

I don't really want to buy lettuce when it is priced in £ per slug.

I don't want to try and work out the cheapest place to buy petrol when the signs outside one says 132.9, the next says 5.99 and the third says 1.49 because they have used "freedom" to price in litres/gallons/quarts.

It's terrible that the despicable EU have forced us to use non-British measurements like the Joule, Newton, Kelvin and Watt.

And there's always the old (double) trick question - which is heavier, an ounce of gold or an ounce of feathers?

PS. The answer is gold which is 42½ grains heavier

ArblemarchTFruitbat · 18/09/2021 23:31

I don't really want to buy lettuce when it is priced in £ per slug.

Get yerself down t'market - priced per lettuce there, none of this weight bollox! Grin

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2021 23:33

I'm pleased you don't want to change time! When people on the telly do that it never ends well 😀

I suppose the but I really don't get is why this is important for the govt right now?

Shops can already price in lb etc.

Why is it so important that they be allowed not to show the metric? I mean just seems unbearably petty and also I don't understand why it's so important to people.

On units the metric /SI just is simply unquestionably better. Easier.

I know people are used to lb but we're going back decades since it changed. And recipe books here still come in both I think.

We still have pints and miles and all that stuff. We don't display km on signs next to miles.

I mean it's all fine.

Pushing for imperial ONLY is about making some kind of point. If it's there as well then I mean that's fine. And from this thread it's about a really small amount of instances IE buying some carrots for dinner. Not about anything else.

So why is it so important to have only imperial given?

And in reality. How many vendors are even going to do it.

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