Ds expected to “help” another pupil with work in class

[LostFrog]

Ds is 9 years old, just started Year 5, first year of new school (middle school system here).

He tells me that when he has finished his own work in class, he is required to help a boy who sits next to him. This happens every single lesson, and he says that the boy is reluctant to work, won’t write anything, gives up quickly and mutters all the time that he doesn’t get it, etc. From asking around, this seems to be the standard on every table in the class - there is one or two pupils who are “learning mentors” who have to teach the less able ones.

Is this a) normal, and b) reasonable? It’s not like ds volunteered for this role. If he has finished, Shouldn’t he be offered an extension task whilst the teacher or TA (there is one, I checked) help the ones who are struggling? I have emailed the teacher to ask them to clarify what’s expected, but has anyone else come across this?

[traumatisednoodle]

But if you understand that six is half of twelve, and three is a quarter of twelve, and one doesn’t mean one unit it means one hour and also one minute and also one second and also 13, you can use all of those numbers and all of that communication for other things. You build skills on top of skills

Yes Dd knew that by the end of year 2. She needed something else by year 6, as I say simple algebra, factorising that sort of thing.

[Pumperthepumper]

@traumatisednoodle

But if you understand that six is half of twelve, and three is a quarter of twelve, and one doesn’t mean one unit it means one hour and also one minute and also one second and also 13, you can use all of those numbers and all of that communication for other things. You build skills on top of skills

Yes Dd knew that by the end of year 2. She needed something else by year 6, as I say simple algebra, factorising that sort of thing.

Great! And did she also understand it in a way that she could clearly explain it to someone else?

[TatianaBis]

It might be easier for them to learn the time when they remember ‘half’ past is also ‘half’ of twelve.

Or it might make it more difficult as half past is 30 mins past the hour not 6 mins.

[Peppapigforlife]

This used to happen to me at primary school. I would finish the work in minutes and when I asked for more work or to have some reading time, the teacher would say I had spend the rest of that lesson walking around to see if anyone needed any help. It was boring as anything and way too basic for me to learn more by explaining it. I ended up messing around a lot towards the last couple of years and all through secondary school out of boredom and lack of anything to focus on. I never managed to finish my degree and got lower A levels in the end because I'd been so bored I zoned out for years, messed about and eventually had missed some work and had to catch up at the end. In my experience please advocate for your son, to be able to continue learning new things once he finishes the work set.

[Pumperthepumper]

@TatianaBis

It might be easier for them to learn the time when they remember ‘half’ past is also ‘half’ of twelve.

Or it might make it more difficult as half past is 30 mins past the hour not 6 mins.

But it might not. We’ll never know if we don’t try.

[traumatisednoodle]

Yes, she was interested in why the hoir was split into 60 when there are 360 degrees in a circle, I am not sure her musing on this would have helped her "learning partner" who couldn't grasp the passage of time represented by a clock face.....

[TatianaBis]

@traumatisednoodle

Yes, she was interested in why the hoir was split into 60 when there are 360 degrees in a circle, I am not sure her musing on this would have helped her "learning partner" who couldn't grasp the passage of time represented by a clock face.....

Well, quite,

[traumatisednoodle]

Hour not hoir whatever that may be.
Dd had 117 in her yr 6 sats and 135 in her yr 7 CATS she is still being taught in a mixed ability maths class (to be fair this is now in a grammar school) now yr 10). She has been bored for a very long time.

[Pumperthepumper]

@traumatisednoodle

Yes, she was interested in why the hoir was split into 60 when there are 360 degrees in a circle, I am not sure her musing on this would have helped her "learning partner" who couldn't grasp the passage of time represented by a clock face.....

It’s not supposed to help her learning partner. Its for her benefit, not his. She’s not teaching him, she’s using her knowledge and vocabulary to sound off to another person. If he understands it, great! If he doesn’t, also great.

[Pumperthepumper]

@TatianaBis

Yeah, I’m not really sure what you’re hoping to get from this thread, aside from just flinging insults my way.

One could equally say the same of you. Are you hoping to bludgeon us into agreeing with you? You’re not listening to anyone, so you might as well being doing a worksheet on your own.

Again; you don’t have to agree with me. It doesn’t make any difference.

Will we just stop addressing each other then? I’m not sure what’s left to say and I’m finding the insults a bit annoying.

[Pumperthepumper]

@traumatisednoodle

Hour not hoir whatever that may be.
Dd had 117 in her yr 6 sats and 135 in her yr 7 CATS she is still being taught in a mixed ability maths class (to be fair this is now in a grammar school) now yr 10). She has been bored for a very long time.

Speak to the school, or move her somewhere else. She shouldn’t be bored, regardless of the ability of the rest of the class.

[TatianaBis]

It’s not supposed to help her learning partner. Its for her benefit, not his. She’s not teaching him, she’s using her knowledge and vocabulary to sound off to another person. If he understands it, great! If he doesn’t, also great.

So you keep saying. So her learning partner’s wasting time listening to her jabbering on when he could be learning to read the time and be able to see just how much time he’s actually wasting.

And of course that’s not how it works in practice, as per the OP.

[TatianaBis]

Anyway, I’ve got to get to the post.

[Pumperthepumper]

@TatianaBis

It’s not supposed to help her learning partner. Its for her benefit, not his. She’s not teaching him, she’s using her knowledge and vocabulary to sound off to another person. If he understands it, great! If he doesn’t, also great.

So you keep saying. So her learning partner’s wasting time listening to her jabbering on when he could be learning to read the time and be able to see just how much time he’s actually wasting.

And of course that’s not how it works in practice, as per the OP.

Again; that’s poor classroom management.

Are we done?

[traumatisednoodle]

I have, I have.....there has just been an awful lot of disruption, so I think they are trying to bring them all up to the same level. She is 14 and doesn't want to change schools, I have offered. Luckily her brother is doing futher maths A-level so he can give her some more interesting stuff (note this does not help him with his studies and I'm not pretending it does).

[MichaelMumsnet]

Hi all. We've removed some personal attacks that were beginning to derail this thread - please do try to address the point and not the person, and hopefully things will get back on track.
Peace and love,
MNHQ

[ThePlantsitter]

Attitudes on this thread are really irritating and I'm not even a teacher. Pedagogy is a thing. It's hundreds of years old. It's based on thousands of people's research and practice and observations about how humans learn and has been carefully built up like any other practice. It's not just doing stuff for the convenience of the teacher, it is proven and based on sound theoretical knowledge.

OF COURSE sometimes it's not done properly but that doesn't make the practice of doing it wrong.

All smells a bit 'I've had enough of experts' to me.

[Pumperthepumper]

@traumatisednoodle

I have, I have.....there has just been an awful lot of disruption, so I think they are trying to bring them all up to the same level. She is 14 and doesn't want to change schools, I have offered. Luckily her brother is doing futher maths A-level so he can give her some more interesting stuff (note this does not help him with his studies and I'm not pretending it does).

That sounds rubbish. It probably will help your son too though, being able to explain concepts you already know (or take for granted) is a fantastic skill. And it’s communication and adapting language, it will benefit him.

[TatianaBis]

and I’m finding the insults a bit annoying.

You haven’t been insulted, your teaching methods have been criticised. It’s not personal.

Meanwhile, the posters who disagree with you have all been told we are ignorant, confused, don’t understand and our opinion is irrelevant. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Anyway I’ve got to get to the post box. See y’all.

[peaceanddove]

@traumatisednoodle

What about moving onto yr 7/8 syllabus in yr 5/6 what's wrong with that ?

At my DD2's primary it was because there were no teachers there who were comfortable teaching Level 6 maths, let alone Level 7. That's why DD2 had to attend another primary for her SATs prep in Maths.

But, I'm sure all her primary teachers could enthusiastically count in base 8, which we now understand is the gold standard of mathematical ability.

[Pumperthepumper]

@TatianaBis

and I’m finding the insults a bit annoying.

You haven’t been insulted, your teaching methods have been criticised. It’s not personal.

Meanwhile, the posters who disagree with you have all been told we are ignorant, confused, don’t understand and our opinion is irrelevant. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Anyway I’ve got to get to the post box. See y’all.

I think your deleted posts tell a different story.

Done?

[Pumperthepumper]

@peaceanddove is that really your understanding from this thread?

[peaceanddove]

@IveGotASongThatllGetOnYNerves

Bonkers.
How do they stop the kids just telling their classmate the answers?

They don't. Most of the time my DD2 would get fed up that Jaxxon still couldn't get the concept, despite her explaining it several times. She was also worried that her teacher might be cross that she couldn't make Jaxxon understand, or wasn't sufficiently fascinated by the painfully slow workings of his inner mind.

So, she would just do it for him - which Jaxxon was perfectly content for her to do as it left him more time to set fire to the desk, or whatever.