I HATE paying Council Tax. It's the bill I hate the most.

[flashbac]

Council Tax is regressive and unfair.

It takes more money from lower income individuals.

It has no link to the actual value of a property.

In addition to linking council tax to value, the bands also need to increase in range in order to reflect the vast difference in property values.

How can it be right that a million pound property in Westminster is the same or (often lower) CT rate than a 2 up, 2 down house in Yorkshire?

@CaptainMarvelous

My Band D property in a market town in the North West is just over £2000 a year.

In Kensington a Band D is £1313.

Council Tax is grossly unfair and regressive.

There's only not many band D properties in Kensington, the bulk of properties are in G and H. Whereas Halton as an example has only a handful of G and H with the bulk being in A. A band D in the North West will be equal to a H in Kensington value wise if you picked it up and dropped it in there - and would cost you £2627.

Then you have them and Cllrs victim blaming poor people who can't afford the cost or can't get to the dump during a pandemic (what do they expect old Bill who lives alone and has been given 18 months to live to do with his broken bike nobody wants, he can't bring it to the dump, he hasn't the money to pay to have it taken away, he has no PC to book a dump spot and is proud doesn't like to bother others - or Mrs Hancock, she has a gaggle of children to care for, her husband has gone off with his mistress, she has long covid and can just about care for herself and the children if she says she is struggling she will have the abilest sexist bully staff at the children's school trying to wreck life further, she will loose residency to Mr Hancocks Mother because nobody else will have the children, MIL will make everyone's life a misery, her family and friends are selfish, she was always the one to help them and they will not help in return, she can't work, Mr Hancock will not pay maintenance, she can't bring that rug the dog ruined to the dump so it is sat outside - invented scinario to show not everyone with stuff outside is feckless) and them lecturing people on environmental matters, when most of them are the biggest hypocrites like Private jet Harry.

Free ? We have to pay an extra charge for the council to collect bulky items.

I wouldn't mind if our council actually spent money wisely. Instead they piss it up against the wall and everything has gone to shit. There's a road near us, a main route into a town, that has been closed for coming up to two years, because there is a crack down the middle of it. It has taken until now for works to commence, and apparently they will take another couple of years. They were warned about the ground shifting under the road for many years prior, but did nothing until the road wasn't safe to drive on. That is just the beginning of their failings. Pot hole repairs, if you're lucky to get them, they do have a job, and within a few months it needs doing again. They shut our recycling and rubbish centre for absolutely no reason during Covid and threatened to shut it permanently, while fly tipping galore suddenly became an issue.
To top it all off, we pay extra for a parish council that we had no choice in getting. So far, in two years, they've painted some railings. They got ripped into when they spent several hundred pounds on USB sticks, and some socks 🤷

@TheYearOfSmallThings

I pay more for my 3 bed detached than Buckingham Palace does

Does anyone know how much CT they pay? If I'm paying more I want to have a framed cross stitch of the quote above hanging in my hall!

I bet Buckingham Palace doesn't pay CT but pays business rates instead, since huge chunks of it are offices and really it's a state owned entertainment venue. Is it classed as a Benefit in Kind for HMQ to live in it 🤔

A local market town near me protested to get one hours free parking there, which they won, was 60p for an hour

The following year, the council increases council tax to cover this loss. A lot of residents are now complaining that they are paying for the free parking for people that don't live in thst Town.
Council tax doesn't seem fair, but its locally set due to the councils expenditure

I think it's flawed, and you'll never get a perfect system. Obviously you need some taxation to pay for the services.

I think what makes people resent it is related to the services provided. We had a 5% rise in April and our services are shocking. So far refuse collection has been cancelled several times this year. There are no places in local schools, some children have to catch three buses to get to school. The roads are a mess with potholes - you can see the old cobbles in a lot of the roads. The pavement outside my house is unsafe, and the council quoted me £2k if I wanted it fixing. Local parks are old and ruined, and they have recently started charging £3 to park there. The town centre is run down and most shops are now boarded up, as rent was extortionate and parking £1.60/hr. Police are overstretched and often don't come out.

I think people wouldn't mind paying if their city benefitted from it.

[quote emmathedilemma]@annacondom unless you live in Scotland that's not covered by council tax, water/sewage charges are paid additionally to the water company. The council is only responsible for road drainage.[/quote]
Yes, they are separate charges. I was replying to the comment about hating to pay for water as it falls from the sky. Sorry, should have clarified.

Excellent post.

@Spidey66

I hate the water rates. I mean I pay it and everything but I resent paying for something that falls from the sky.

I live in a flat. If it wasn't the fact the freeholders have not requested the ground rent for the past 20 years, I'd resent paying that. It's such an archaic system. As it is I'm resenting the thought it's going to cost me mega £££ to sort the lease out if I ever want to sell my flat.

To be fair you don't have to pay water rates. You're perfectly welcome to collect your own rain water to use and dispose of excess rain water from your premises and treat your own sewage. If you can prove to the water company you're doing all this they'll close your account.

Water companies don't charge for "something that falls from the sky" they charge for collection, storage, treatment and transport of clean safe water to your home. They then charge for sewerage to be taken from your home and made safe for the environment again.

This is always one of the most puerile "I don't want to pay" statements and really winds me up.

@wedwewerpink

Do you mind me asking What is council tax for?? I'm not in the U.K.

The vast majority is social care so carers for elderly, respite care for disabled children, children who are in the care system, social services etc

There is a breakdown
www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/A4%20STATIC%20IMAGE_04_1.pdf

[quote toconclude]@Spidey66
Please tell me you are joking and do not mean you are so ignorant as not to understand that your water supply is so very much more than what ' fell out of the sky'?[/quote]
Yes I was joking!!!!

@GivenUpEntirely
I was definitely only joking, of course I realise the water has to be treated and effectively sent to our taps!!

Though on a day like today when it doesn't stop raining, I do wonder....

@BrendaBubbles

Council tax is poll tax. Except it’s even higher but you get to divide it up amongst the adults in a household. Why people were so easily fooled is beyond me - the poll tax seemed fairer than this.

There is no way the poll tax was a fair tax.

Lets take Westminster as an example, seeing as they have been used a lot.....

Lats take Lord Muck living in his £3million, 6 bed/3 bath home in Belgravia, who has thousands coming in each month, a nifty sports car, works of art. Under the poll tax he would only pay say £50 a month. But compare him with Charlie and Maggie in their 1 bed council flat on the Mozart Estate. Charlie's a binman and Maggie works part time in the Coop. Combined income of say £1500 a month. They have to pay £50 each in poll tax, so TWICE what Lord Muck does.

OK so Charlie and Maggie may need more in terms of state education for their kids, social care as they get older etc, but that's what happens in a welfare state.

So why should Lord Muck pay more, he's using less council resources than Charlie and Maggie?

Is it just because he's got more money?

That's what happens in a welfare state, though.

Why should he pay more tax and NI, he's not claiming benefits and is unlikely to use the NHS.

I don't have kids, should I opt out of certain taxes etc on the grounds that I'm not using schools? No of course not. The UK is a welfare state. Charlie and Maggie are poorer as a result of the Poll Tax, Lord Muck is richer.

We are in a part of the USA with very high property taxes.
Tenants don't pay them but they push up the cost of renting significantly.

@Spidey66

In your example, why should "Lord Muck", who receives the same bin collection as, has to deal with the same potholes as C&M, whilst probably not using any other council services other than maybe planning, pay any more than C&M?

They will then all pay tax on their income, C&M and LM subject to the same tax regime, although in your example, as you are obviously trying to portray an extreme, will likely be paying the Additional Rate, (45%), and have lost his personal allowance (so no £12,600 tax free).

I also not your use of deliberate emotive language, "Lord Muck", and then "Charlie & Maggie", trying to get us to side with the more person you are trying to portray as human. If you have a reasonable argument, the make it on it's merits, not on an appeal to emotion.

@Spidey66

That's what happens in a welfare state, though.

Why should he pay more tax and NI, he's not claiming benefits and is unlikely to use the NHS.

I don't have kids, should I opt out of certain taxes etc on the grounds that I'm not using schools? No of course not. The UK is a welfare state. Charlie and Maggie are poorer as a result of the Poll Tax, Lord Muck is richer.

Well the welfare state basis he is already paying in a much larger amount, and likely proportion of his income than the others.

We have a welfare state, that provides everything from pensions to benefits, education to healthcare. What it does not generally do is opt people out of paying for things, it generally provides them the funds to pay those things when they are unable to do so themselves.

I have two children, I benefit from the existence of laws enforced (or at least somewhat enforced) by the police, by the defence provided by the army, by the wider healthcare system even if I have only used it twice in my adult life. Those things are the benefits of a civilised society, which we all pay in to. Now in terms of tax my husband and I pay in far more than we and our children cost the state and I also think that we, and everyone else, should pay in more. I would rather live in a Scandinavian style system, with higher taxes on all, but a much better level of social provision than the current system we have in the UK.

"In your example, why should "Lord Muck", who receives the same bin collection as, has to deal with the same potholes as C&M, whilst probably not using any other council services other than maybe planning, pay any more than C&M?"

He doesn't call the police if he gets burgled? His bin collection is probably more complicated too if he doesn't live on a street.

So it’s fairer that the rich get richer while the poor get poorer? Which is what basically happened with the poll tax.

As I’m said, why am I paying towards children’s services and schools despite not having any of my own? Why should people pay towards the NHS when they use private medicine? Because that’s what happens when you live in a welfare state.

People were being taken to court and put in prison for not being able to pay the same amount of poll tax as someone on a much higher income and that’s seen as fair?

Let’s say from tomorrow everybody from James Dyson to the single parent mum of 2 working as a carer all had to pay £1000 a month income tax a month. Would that be fair?

Clearly I can’t be the only person who thinks the poll tax was wrong, otherwise we’d still have it.

Clearly I can’t be the only person who thinks the poll tax was wrong, otherwise we’d still have it

You’re not. It was iniquitously unfair. Which is why it was scrapped. The only good thing about it was that it was the cause of Thatcher’s downfall.

Absolute madness. How can this be.
Mine is a three bed house in Wales, £1800
Cheaper than most of Westminster where we couldn't afford to buy a parking space.

I wonder how many of you were around during the Poll Tax. I was. At the time I was a student nurse. I trained under the old apprenticeship model, so was an employee and not a student so was supposed to pay. I living in a variety of NHS, HA, and private bed sits and was living hand to mouth. I barely used any council services bar rubbish collection and libraries but had to keep moving because I was threatened with court action for not being able to be at. Every single penny of my pay was accounted for but I was still expected to pay the same as someone on 10x my income? And that’s fair?

Be at-pay it

Every single penny of my pay was accounted for but I was still expected to pay the same as someone on 10x my income? And that’s fair?

You still are if you live in a similar sized house. And if you’re suggesting you could get a massive reduction now due to benefits.. you could then too. It was 20% of the usual amount you had to pay.