Going NC

[Confusio]

This is a (ridiculously) long one I'm afraid.

As a bit of a back story....I absolutely doted on my parents all my life. I cooked and cleaned for them from my teens onwards. I dropped out of school before GCSE, due to issues with anxiety, but did my A-levels later in order to go to uni. I then gave up my chance to go to uni in order to support my parents due to their business failing, and set up and ran a new one for them. I just really loved them, and would genuinely have done anything for them.
But, I suffered with depression and severe anxiety from a very young age, and as a teenager used to get drunk a lot in order to cope, and I know this must have been difficult to live with.

I'm in my thirties now, I barely ever drink, I live a super healthy lifestyle, and have a high paid job despite my lack of qualifications, I'm happily married, and have a beautiful little baby. My parents have repeatedly reminded me over the years of what a mess I was, to the point I genuinely believed until very recently, that I was a terrible person for getting drunk with my friends, and being mentally ill. I full on hated myself for disappointing them.
As a side note, my mum's an alcoholic (I didn't drink in front of her) and I supported her through detox on more than one occasion, while my dad went out to work all the time to avoid her.

When DH and I first met, I was staying with my parents and DH was in an HMO. We decided to save a deposit for a rental together. We split our time between the two, butmy parents place was closer to work and DH was really happy getting to know my family. We were both grateful that they let us stay, so I still took care of all of the cooking and cleaning, plus contributed what I could with DH. DH also took care of the pets and garden, as they'd let it run to ruin. During this time, DH formed what we thought was a great relationship with my parents, particularly my dad. However, several things my dad said about me, really upset DH, as he kept making me out to be a hysterical mess, and basically saying DH could do better. He also told DH to take my dog to the woods, shoot him, and then tell me he'd run away. DH obviously told him that was horrific, and always defended me.

My parents had a self-employed contract which DH took over when my parents ran into legal trouble on a different contract...which tbh was entirely their fault. Initially, DH was covering the shifts, and my parents were still taking the profit from the job without DHs knowledge. Then they gave the contract to DH, making DH responsible for everything, but they still expected to take the profit. DH was furious they'd been making a profit off his work, behind his back, so he refused and has had the contract and full profit since, with my parents covering the odd shift when DH needs time off.

While we were staying with my parents, we suffered a miscarriage. DH took a night off work to look after me, and my parents covered the shift and docked his money for that night. Was this OK? It felt callous, but we accepted that he hadn't worked that night, regardless of the reason. If he worked anywhere else he probably wouldn't get paid under these circumstances, but they're my parents...so it just felt wrong?

When we got engaged, I asked my mum to help me plan the wedding, she said "owh, I've already had my wedding", which really stung and majorly pissed DH off. We ended up not having a wedding, just a registration, after which my parents invited us to their house for lunch. They then ate pork in front of my (Muslim) husband. They had never eaten it in front of him before then, although my dad frequently told him of any pork dishes he'd eaten that day/week/month...we initially thought it was innocent, as he sounded almost guilty, like it was an admission (DH is never preachy, but massively appreciated my parents never eating pork infront of him), but now it doesn't feel like it was innocent at all.

During my pregnancy, my parents were telling us how excited they were, but were nowhere to be seen, despite me being very ill and in alot of pain throughout and DH having to work constantly to get ready for the baby.
DH only managed to have a week off after my c-section as we couldn't afford my parents to cover any longer than that, and we could only have that week as MIL and SIL paid for it; so I was back to all usual housework duties plus taking care of our newborn alone, 8 days postop.
I nearly died during the c-section due to complications, and was really poorly. My parents visited 2 days after I came home with DS and complained about having to cover for DH, and didn't seem at all interested when hearing what happened in theatre. Since then, they've shown very little interest in DS (13 wo), they seem more interested in my brothers gf's son, but occasionally complain that they don't get to see DS enough.

Also, they're always telling us how much DS looks like DH...which he does, but he does look like me and my family members too. They've also very weirdly said that brothers-gfs-son reminds them of my grandad...despite him not being related. DH is concerned it's a race thing, which I really don't want to believe. Even thinking it makes me feel sick.

DH absolutely hates my parents at this point. He rants about them almost daily, and repeatedly goes over everything they've said and done, which is really stressful. He knows it upsets me, but he worries that I'll go back to thinking the sun shines out their arses if he doesn't constantly remind me that they're awful.

DH has just taken on someone else to cover for him at work when he needs time off. I feel guilty as I know they need the money, but DH keeps reminding me they didn't care when we were struggling and never did us any favours. He wants to go NC.

Would we be unreasonable to do so?
I do feel like it is probably the best thing to do, but I also worry that maybe it's my perspective that's off? Have I been expecting too much? Have I been wrong to be upset by the things they've said and done?

I get confused about whether I'm blaming myself because I've actually done something wrong, or just because I'm not right in the head.

Anyway, I'm so sorry this is so long and convoluted...I'm feeling really overwhelmed with it all. I could just really do with some unbiased perspectives. So...AIBU to go NC?

I'm writing this just in case you need to hear it from someone else

• having mental health issues is nothing to be ashamed of, nor is it something you should be made to feel ashamed for you. You deserve love and understanding.
• being a handful as a teenager is normal behaviour. Most of us arent who we were then and it would be unkind of anyone to make out we were.

We are NC to DHs family, i would say to do it your heart has to be in it. Maybe give it a few weeks being very low contact and see if you feel better? To me, your parents behaviour would be enough to do some major distancing especially the potentially racist behaviour to your child.

Is NC the only option? Reading your post, it struck me that both you and your husband have been and to some extent still are far, far, far too tied up with your parents. You're adults, you're married, you have your own household and family. If you feel you need to formally cut contact then that's your choice and no one should make you feel guilty for it, but it seems extreme. Can you just interact with them naturally - if they say something racist, tell them not to be racist, for example? And of course don't give them work if you can't trust them to do it properly. If your past relationship (for you especially, rather than for your husband: the fact that at earlier points in your life you were naturally completely dependent on them) really makes this impossible, then I guess NC is the sensible choice.

@Magspy

Is NC the only option? Reading your post, it struck me that both you and your husband have been and to some extent still are far, far, far too tied up with your parents. You're adults, you're married, you have your own household and family. If you feel you need to formally cut contact then that's your choice and no one should make you feel guilty for it, but it seems extreme. Can you just interact with them naturally - if they say something racist, tell them not to be racist, for example? And of course don't give them work if you can't trust them to do it properly. If your past relationship (for you especially, rather than for your husband: the fact that at earlier points in your life you were naturally completely dependent on them) really makes this impossible, then I guess NC is the sensible choice.

Yeah I agree with this. Your parents don't necessarily sound like horrible people, although maybe not ideal parents, most of the issues seems circumstantial and most people if they were that entangled with their parents would have lots of issues. Just put some distance between you all. Completely cut financial dependency both ways.

And I agree if they say something you perceive as racist, then just firmly tell them it's not appropriate, especially if they say so in front of your child.

First, congratulations on all that you have achieved in your life. Very many people suffer from anxiety and depression, especially growing up, and you coped with everything which Life threw at you, including having to support your DM, and effectively became your DPs' parents instead of the other way round. You are clearly a compassionate and remarkable woman!

I think that you should probably put some distance between your family and your DPs, as the history seems to be one of complication and entanglement to an unusual degree, with a lot of resentments having built up over time, some of which go back over many years . However, you are an adult now and are free to make your own choices.

You should definitely sever any business relationship with your DPs, as this seems to have been a major source of tension. Money issues are often at the heart of family arguments. It is clear that the relationship between your DH and your DPs has deteriorated to the extent where you say he 'absolutely hates' them. I expect that they have picked up on this, and meetings are inevitably going to be awkward and difficult. It is possible that this has influenced the relationship between your DPs and your DS.

However, I think that you should only go NC if it's what you really want to do, not because DH insists on this. It is, in my view, reasonable for him not to want to have any contact with them himself, but it is unreasonable to insist that you should cut off your family if you don't want to do so. I am concerned that your DH is ranting about your DPs every day and constantly telling you how awful they are, even though he knows how much it upsets you. You are not responsible for your DPs and it is unfair of him to blame you, to make you feel guilty for their behaviour, or to put pressure on you to cut them out of your life and that of your DC, if you don't want to.

The incident with the dog seems bizarre. Did you ask your father about this? What did he say? Did he admit it? Why would he suggest that the dog be shot? Had it shown signs of aggression? Is it old or in pain, so that he was trying to put it out of its misery? (Not that makes this conduct in any way acceptable, btw). Or was your DF trying to hurt you for some inexplicable reason? Perhaps it's because I have a dog myself, that I just can't get my head round this. I simply cannot imagine anyone wanting to kill a beloved pet, certainly not my own father. Where does the dog live now?

I am also unclear about the potential racism aspects. It sounds as though your DH and DPs had a good relationship previously when, presumably, they knew that he was Muslim. Why does DH think that they are racist, apart from some comments about which family members the grandsons resemble, and consuming pork in his presence? I have friends who don't eat various meats or drink alcohol for religious reasons, but they wouldn't expect me to abstain. However, consuming pork at the meal to celebrate the wedding seems strange, if they had made a point of not eating it before. What do you eat and drink at your own home? Where are DH's family in all this, as you don't mention them?

You actually sound as though you are quite confused and I wonder if it might help you to have some counselling or therapy to help clarify your thoughts, and where you go from here.

How can you go nc with intertwined jobs and them covering shifts?

Well they don't come across well but NC seems drastic. You feel that going NC is probably the best thing to do, why exactly? To stop your husband ranting about them? Will he make your life difficult if you continue to see them without him?

You've been very enmeshed with your parents so stepping back might be more sensible rather than NC and see how the relationship recovers. Mixing family and business is often tricky, I understand to an extent as we brought my sister into our business and our relationship is now very strained.

How much of their unpleasant behaviour/comments are you getting from the horse's mouth and how much from DH, eg about shooting the dog?

I don't understand the pork thing either. I'm a vegetarian and at our wedding we provided meat for the meat eaters.

Your husband says they never cared about you or did you any favours, yet you both lived with them while you saved a deposit and they involved you in their business, essentially providing your DH with employment. Your mother didn't show any interest in your wedding so you ended up with a registry office wedding. It sounds like you weren't particularly interested in wedding planning either.

To me it sounds like there are tensions on both sides, and I wonder if their seeming lack of interest in your child is related to how unwelcome they feel in your home? I doubt your DH is able to conceal his dislike of them.

If you go NC do you have other family and friends to support you?

I don't think going NC will give you the peace of mind you hope it will. It may be the best thing long term, but maybe take a less drastic route first and see how things are. See them without your DH if necessary. I was NC with my inlaws for a while but I never expected my DH to stop seeing them, and our relationship recovered eventually.

Thank you all so much for your replies, I really appreciate it xx

To answer some questions:

• DH has never pressured me to go NC, he's just made his feelings very clear. He feels it would be best for us all, and he's not keen on the idea of them having much to do with DS at all, given their attitude. However, he's always lovely to them, and very welcoming, he would never show out about how he really feels without my agreement, as he'd never put me in a position like that. He says he'll support me in whatever decision I make, but wants me to be very careful about allowing them into our lives, and to be sure to keep boundaries in check.

• I don't eat pork, but DH never asked me not to. It just naturally felt like the most respectful thing to do, for someone I love very much. He's very grateful for that decision, as are his family.

• The situation with the dog is bizarre, but very much in keeping with the Jekyll and Hyde character my dad seems to have. He's made comments like this before about other things. It's very extreme, and tbh has always put me on edge. The dog is an absolute sweetheart, and has never been aggressive to people, he's wonderful with babies and children (not that we'd ever leave ANY dog alone with them), he's even friends with our cats. However, he is dog aggressive due to a much bigger dog attacking him when he was little, but he can still make friends as long as he's introduced gently. He's happily living with us, and is a much loved member of the family.

• A lot of the comments my dad's made about me, have been in front of me. He's a big fan of the backhanded compliment. Before I met DH I always put it down to me being oversensitive (mostly because that's what I was told) but the fact DH has been upset by them too, makes me feel like it's not just all in my head. For instance, I got my job, I was "lucky" and then when I got my performance based bonuses, I was "jammy"...the fact I'd worked my arse off meant nothing. When I lost weight, everyone else told me I looked good, he said "God, you were a fat bird weren't you?" I was a size 12, and became a size 10...so, no. He's also repeatedly told me how "well" I've done landing my husband, and that I'll have to work hard to keep him. There are always jokes about how I'm punching and that I'll have to make him fat to stop him leaving. It hurts.

• DHs family come with their own set of issues. They're very kind to us, and have been supportive, however, our relationship and marriage has been kept a secret from their friends, and until recently, the wider family. My son is now being kept a secret too, which is a bit much for me. I think with everything going on with my parents, this rejection has just really touched a nerve, so although I care for them deeply, I'm struggling a bit with them too. Maybe it's just due to my MH deteriorating recently, I don't know.

• I do have a doctors appointment booked this week, with a view to going on some antidepressants, and will begin counselling again sometime soon after.

• DH has replaced my parents on the contract, so they will no longer be covering for him. This way, there will be no financial ties, as it does seem to be a source of resentment.

• I was heartbroken not to have a wedding, however, covid hit, and we had to change our plans. Plus, by the time we'd have finished saving for the wedding, I would have been too pregnant. I was not a petite preggo...I was enormous, with a massive hulk baby, so I would have felt too self-conscious to be a bride anyway. We spent a lot of time, effort, and money, planning our big day, we just didn't get to have it.

• We moved to a new area just before covid started, and then I was pregnant and ill, and now we have a little one to take care of, so we haven't really had a chance to make friends in the area. We haven't really got a support network anyway, so going NC won't change that. Tbh, I think the only person who'll be sad at all is me. My parents don't really make any effort to stay in touch, and for the most part don't seem bothered about seeing us.

Sounds to me like your parents have got used to having you around all the time to do everything for them and are resentful of the fact that you're building your own life and gaining some independence.

Your dad's comments in particular sound nasty and potentially even emotionally abusive, and it sounds as though over time they're really impacted your self esteem. Personally, I think your DH is right - he's seen them for what they are and it sounds like he wants better for you.

Only you can make the decision to go NC, but I would definitely consider listening to some of the comments here about at least reducing contact with them for a bit and see how you feel.

I have already taken steps to distance my family from my parents. I'm not in touch with them as regularly...before I would constantly be at their beck and call. I don't involve them in any decisions we make, whereas before I did tend to run everything past them, which I know was really weird... I am a lot happier when it's just me, DH, and DS, than when anyone else gets involved. Literally everyone else triggers some kind of anxiety for me atm, so I do think continuing with this distance is definitely a good shout. I think that whether we take it further, will depend on their behaviour going forward. It almost feels inevitable though. It's just reassuring to know I'm not totally crazy for being upset at some of their behaviour. It's been really helpful to hear some outside perspectives, so thank you all again.

@Wisteriac43 @Crispyduckandpancakes I just wanted to say thank you both for your comments. I really needed a few kind words right now, and a reminder that I'm not completely worthless for struggling with my MH

@Disintegration1985 DH reckons you've hit the nail on the head. It's really gutting to think that they aren't happy that I'm finally making a life for myself with someone who loves me. I just don't know why it's like this.

Op I'm impressed at what you've achieved in your life despite, it seems, taking on caring duties for your parents at a young age. I hope that doesn't sound patronising but I want to recognise your achievements in difficult circumstances. Your DH sounds lovely too :)

I don't think you should make a decision before you've had counselling and it would be a good idea to work through how much contact you wish to have with your parents with the support if a therapist you trust.

I recognise elements of my own experiences in your post - to me it sounds like your relationship with your parents is mired by codependency and a complete lack of boundaries.

I wonder how you came to be so central to your parents day to day lives and why they were OK with you running their home when you still a child. Why did you cook and clean for them from your teens?

Let alone everything else you've done for them.

Are their cultural expectations involved? How has their parenting of you differed from their parenting (and expectations) of your brother?

Anxiety is quite common in people who are in copdependent relationships with their parents, and certainly in people who take on adult responsibilities at a young age.

Also, when boundaries are so skewed with parents, they can also be skewed with other people as we didn't learn how to put healthy ones in place to start with. Do you find other people rely on you a lot and are you the sort of person to mover heaven and earth for someone else at the drop of a hat? How often do you prioritise yourself in your relationships?

I agree with previous posters that if you go NC it should be entirely your choice and not your DH's but you love them so much so I'm inclined to think you're leaning towards cutting contact completely is one of appeasement?

Going NC isn't necessarily the wrong thing to do but I think you need to examine your relationship with your parents and others in your life with a counsellor...Putting in healthy boundaries may well be enough.

A personal question: do you measure your self worth by how valuable/helpful you are to other people?

Thank you @TaraR2020 that's really kind of you to say. I'm actually so shocked at the kindness I've been shown here. I was fully expecting expecting be told I was a pathetic moron.

I think you're probably right about the counselling before making a concrete decision. I do still feel conflicted, despite so many memories of my parents saying or doing something thoughtless. I'm realising I'm also really angry at the times they shirked their parenting responsibilities when I was a child because it was easier. I think that now I'm a mum, it's changed my perspective on things quite drastically.

When I was very young, our house was always a tip, it was well furnished but very messy and the cleaning never done, my mum was always kicking off at us about how filthy everything was. She'd make us (but really just me as my brother would refuse) clean the house before any visitors were allowed over, and if I didn't wash and iron my school uniform, I didn't have a clean one. My bedroom was always a pigsty, and I remember whenever I went to my cousins or friends houses, their parents would be tidying up as we played, or they'd ask us to pop a few toys in a basket, they'd come and collect laundry off the floor and make their beds etc but mine never did that. They'd just scream at me whenever it got untidy and it genuinely took me a long time to understand how to keep things tidy in the first place. But when I was a teen, I knew that if I cleaned things other than my bedroom, or cooked them dinner, my parents would be really happy with me, so I used it to "make up" for disappointing them, and that just carried on into adulthood.

My brother is younger than me, and...a boy...so I think there was a lot of bias in their parenting. He's also way more likely to refuse to do something. He's very confident, loud and really quite entitled, whereas I'm very self-conscious and quiet. Up until he moved in with his new gf, my mum was going to his flat and cleaning for him before he had his gf round, and she's always delighted to take him and his gf food etc.

You're spot on about other relationships. As I mentioned previously, following counselling, I was in a pretty good place with my MH, and thank god, was able to start a very happy relationship with my lovely DH. But before DH, all of my friendships were based on me being their support, being available whenever they needed etc, but with none of it reciprocated. I wasn't very confident with men, so although I dated, I only had one previous long-term boyfriend, who was abusive, but I really thought it was what I deserved...which I now know is insane, but it felt true at the time.

DH and I discuss the matter of NC frequently, and he has pointed out to me that his biggest concern is if we go ahead, what will happen to me when one of them becomes ill or dies. He doesn't want me to have huge regrets and spiral, or to resent him. So he wouldn't let me take this action for the wrong reasons.

I think I'm leaning towards NC partly to make DH happy, it's true, I often feel like I'm being disloyal to DH and DS for considering my parents at all, but also because I just don't want to keep feeling like I'm not good enough and not worthy of their care and support, the way my brother is. The whole thing is just exhausting.

And to answer your question, yes...I'm more reasonable about this than I used to be, but I did used to feel that if I'm not helpful, I'm useless. DH is helping me work on this though as he feels it makes me vulnerable to people taking advantage...which judging by history is probably true. I feel like an idiot.

You are not an idiot.

So many of us have been where you are. Learning to put in place healthy boundaries is life changing and, for me at least, very freeing.

Your therapist can help you understand which expectations others have of you are reasonable and which aren't.

Your comment about wanting to go NC out of loyalty to your Dh and DS...I completely get that but think this is another reason to have counselling before you make a decision. It ought to be out of loyalty to yourself and while you still rate your self worth by how valuable you are to others...Well to me this is red flag that you ought not to rush into making a decision out of a sense of loyalty to others.

I'm not saying it your loyalty to your DH and son shouldn't come into it, just - as your DH seems to be saying - it needs to be about you. It sounds as if your DH is good at protecting his own mental health and that you both have your son covered. To me it seems like you're displacing your own feelings because it's easier to consider theirs than work out your own. I'm not wording it very well but hopefully you understand what I'm getting at

If I were your friend IRL I'd suggest you agree firm boundaries that you're comfortable with for now. Establish how much you're willing to do for them and ensure visits and conversations are time-bound. This should at least see you through therapy while protecting your MH.

How do you value other people? Is how much you love them dependent on how much you do for them or is based on their other attributes, like sense of humour or intelligence?

I'd give this some thought and then think about your own attributes. Ask you husband, son and true friends what they like and cherish about you...You might be surprised at what they say and it will hopefully help you to starting viewing your self-worth differently.

Have you ever spoke to your parents about any of this? In practise your relationship with them is one sided but in conversation to they express different intentions?

How would they react if you asked them for a favour or practical help? If you think they'd like to help then you have a foundation for having a discussion with them about more demonstrative love and care from them.

(Auto correct had a mind of its own at the moment!)

*has