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AIBU?

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Original poster

To not put the house back to what it was?

728 replies

QuantumDog2 · 13/09/2021 21:55

I've rented the house I live in currently for nearly 9 years. When I moved in it was a new build and we were the first to live here, so obviously a buy to let. The walls were all trade paint magnolia and the carpets were cheap, exactly the way new builds are presented as standard.
Over the years I've decorated it and made some improvements like extending the patio and I spend £1400 on new flooring for the lounge because the carpet was worn out by that stage and looked grotty.
Now I'm leaving as I've bought somewhere with my partner, but contractually apparently I have to return the property the way I found it. I'm 6 months pregnant now and don't fancy donning my overalls and climbing ladders to paint. What would you do? I feel like after 9 years here and the time and money I've spent on the place (although my choice totally) I shouldn't really be penalised, but I expect I will lose my deposit?

OP posts:
willithappen · 14/09/2021 14:10

Why would LL pay to decorate when TNT is clearly wanting to decorate themselves?

@Blossomtoes bold statement actually. Please don't push the whole 'letting agents like you' scenario because quite frankly that's rude and you have zero idea what goes on or the help given to tenants. I'm providing factual experience on this to help Op and have even suggested they get their own quotes to help with the costs and ensure that they are not being over charged

Fact of the matter is, permission was granted on the basis is was returned. If you don't return it you will be charged from the deposit. It's not exactly rocket science. I also don't know how many times I need to say that the deposit scheme won't look at what the landlord didn't do during the tenancy. That's a completely difference discussion and the tenant should go to their local tribunal if they want to push on that. First Tier Tribunal in Scotland which is free of charge.

Muchmorethan · 14/09/2021 14:10

Take a screenshot of the rental advert that is using your improvements to advertise

Blossomtoes · 14/09/2021 14:14

you have zero idea what goes on or the help given to tenants

I do actually, having seen the treatment meted out to renters in my family over the years. The only time the end of rentals goes smoothly is when letting agents aren’t involved.

Iamthewombat · 14/09/2021 14:16

@GreyhoundG1rl

Well, of course it's supposition 😂 I made the point that op, having painted in the colours of her choice would hardly have appreciated having them forcibly painted over (and the LL were hardly going to source the same colours, rather than trade white), in fact she'd have been outraged had they tried to; so "haven't done anything in nine years" isn't really relevant.
This! All the posters bemoaning the landlord having “done no maintenance in nine years” because he or she didn’t paint the walls.

Would you have appreciated a landlord doing what @GreyhoundG1rl describes above: painting over your choice of colours that you’d sought permission to put on the walls, whilst you were living in the house, before you’d given notice, and disrupting your life by rendering rooms unusable for days?

Of course not.

As for “doing no maintenance”: how do you know? The OP hasn’t mentioned standard house maintenance. Her LL might have fixed loads of stuff during those nine years.

ladybrunton · 14/09/2021 14:20

I don't understand why anyone is saying the landlord is being petty. You asked for permission to paint the walls different colours and he agreed but stipulated that they would need to be returned to magnolia when you left. You agreed to that.

He's only asking you to do what you agreed you would do.

sunflowerstory · 14/09/2021 14:26

"If just annoys me slightly that they want to pick and choose which aspects of the improvements they keep."

So would you rather he also asked you to take up the flooring and pay for carpet to be re-fitted?

thatonehasalittlecar · 14/09/2021 14:26

All of you saying it’s to do with the wrong colour are missing the point.

Yes, the LL can claim on the deposit to return the walls to magnolia. That would be a valid claim.

So the deposit scheme would award money for that.

Then they would take off a percentage of the award for each year since it was painted, to allow for wear & tear (which has nothing to do with colour). Otherwise they would be allowing an award for ‘betterment’, which is not allowed.

This will very likely bring the awarded amount down to £0.

willithappen · 14/09/2021 15:08

@Blossomtoes

you have zero idea what goes on or the help given to tenants

I do actually, having seen the treatment meted out to renters in my family over the years. The only time the end of rentals goes smoothly is when letting agents aren’t involved.

You have said letting agents like myself - so I therefore disagree you know anything about what we do on a daily basis unless it's your family we have been helping?

The deposit scheme is there for this exact reason. They ultimately make the final decision if it's in dispute, not the letting agent
And I can confirm we return full deposits to tenants majority of the time. You get a check in and check out report for a reason and it's not difficult to know what you need to do to return it. You break it, you pay for it. Fair wear and tear is always taken into account and depreciation amounts awarded rather than full costs. Example - mark on carpet - we wouldn't charge for replacement of a full carpet and instead it would be the depreciation amount for that one mark.

Mummapenguin20 · 14/09/2021 15:16

I wish my house had been left readily decorated

Houseplantmad · 14/09/2021 15:25

You know the terms ie to return it to neutral so you will bear the cost. Whether your deposit is enough to cover this is another matter.
I’d be pretty cheesed off with you. Our tenants asked to repaint in neutral and painted it bright green. Never again will I let tenants paint. Ditto floors. Our flat has to be carpeted, as in the lease, tenants asked to change this and I agreed but they’ve put LVT down and it has to come up as the people below have complained.
Communication is key although I’m aware it goes both ways.

Blossomtoes · 14/09/2021 15:25

Let me give you an example @willithappen.

A very cheap vertical blind in a bathroom was allegedly broken by a tenant who occupied the property for 18 months. A deduction of £95 was proposed by the letting agent for replacement. The tenant insisted on three quotes being obtained and reminded the agent that the blind wasn’t new at the beginning of the tenancy. After much emailing back and forth and threatening to invoke the deposit scheme’s complaints procedure, the bill was reduced to £23.

Blossomtoes · 14/09/2021 15:27

Oh, and the same letting agent complained that there was dust on the outside of the front door!

LaikO · 14/09/2021 15:29

I would think it's fair for the landlord to keep as much of the deposit as needed to return the walls to magnolia, especially as they stated this would need to be done.
The other improvements have added value, but to be completely honest they were done in a rented home, with the full knowledge that the only person to benefit from them in the long term would be the landlord, they can't be blamed for that. If you wanted to pay to have them returned to the way they were before OP, that would of course be fair too.

RubyTrees · 14/09/2021 15:40

LL's can and do put all kinds of shite into contracts that is not enforceable and sometimes not even legal. A common one is insisting tenants have to facilitate viewings, they don't, and the contract is meaningless. They also write in that they can enter the property as long as they give notice: they can't do that either.

A rental contract is not a magical document that anything put in it has to happen. Anything unreasonable can and is over ridden by legislation.

This is so very true. Every tenant should be aware of this.

In this case, a requirement to return it as it was 9 years ago is certainly over ridden by both common sense and the rental deposit scheme rules.

Correct again - especially with a landlord who has done no maintenance during all that time.

ManifestDestinee · 14/09/2021 15:51

Example - mark on carpet - we wouldn't charge for replacement of a full carpet and instead it would be the depreciation amount for that one mark

Bad example. For a tenancy of 5 year or more you shouldn't be charging anything for a mark on a carpet. Carpets get marked, thats wear and tear.

TheLovelinessOfDemons · 14/09/2021 16:00

DH has been here since 1973. We've done all the work on it. I've no idea what the agreement says, but honestly I think DH would rather lose his deposit than redecorate at the age of 67 with a bad back.

Blossomtoes · 14/09/2021 16:03

@TheLovelinessOfDemons

DH has been here since 1973. We've done all the work on it. I've no idea what the agreement says, but honestly I think DH would rather lose his deposit than redecorate at the age of 67 with a bad back.
I bet he would. He probably paid about £2! My rent was £42 a month in 1974.
Original poster
QuantumDog2 · 14/09/2021 16:06

Does anyone know where I stand on not being 'invited to attend the check out in order to observe Covid-19 and distancing guidelines'?
I've emailed the agent to query this. It appears in the email they sent me regarding the end of tenancy process. As it stands at the moment they haven't had time to get back to me.
Can they force me to be absent from the check-out? They probably can. 🤔

But they're very happy for me to have a constant stream of strangers in and out of the house for viewings.

OP posts:
Original poster
QuantumDog2 · 14/09/2021 16:07

Sorry, on being 'NOT invited to attend' rather.

OP posts:
chesirecat99 · 14/09/2021 16:11

@ManifestDestinee

Example - mark on carpet - we wouldn't charge for replacement of a full carpet and instead it would be the depreciation amount for that one mark

Bad example. For a tenancy of 5 year or more you shouldn't be charging anything for a mark on a carpet. Carpets get marked, thats wear and tear.

The TDS takes into account the quality of the carpet when looking at lifespan. 5 years for cheap carpet, up to 10 years for medium quality, up to 18 years for the best quality. Light, small marks count as wear and tear but not burns or major spills or anything caused by negligence eg a whole bottle of red wine or nail polish, paint, pet urine, hair dye etc.
chesirecat99 · 14/09/2021 16:22

Normally, landlords have to give tenants the opportunity to be present at the check out inspection, @QuantumDog2. There is no specific government COVID guidance on check out inspections currently. The government guidelines do allow landlords access for routine inspections now so there is no justification why they should exclude a tenant from the check out, it works both ways...

www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-and-renting-guidance-for-landlords-tenants-and-local-authorities/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-for-landlords-and-tenants#section2

GreyhoundG1rl · 14/09/2021 16:32

@QuantumDog2

Does anyone know where I stand on not being 'invited to attend the check out in order to observe Covid-19 and distancing guidelines'? I've emailed the agent to query this. It appears in the email they sent me regarding the end of tenancy process. As it stands at the moment they haven't had time to get back to me. Can they force me to be absent from the check-out? They probably can. 🤔

But they're very happy for me to have a constant stream of strangers in and out of the house for viewings.

That's horribly unfair. Be prepared to argue.
butterpuffed · 14/09/2021 16:38

When you mentioned the flooring , OP, I thought you meant you had re-carpeted, not that you had removed the old carpet and replaced with wooden flooring . And you're bothered about the paint !!!

willithappen · 14/09/2021 16:44

@QuantumDog2 we are allowing tenants to be present (in Scotland) so I can't see why you wouldn't. Chase this with your agent and ask under what grounds. Either way you can dispute whatever they bring up if you feel it's necessary

Original poster
QuantumDog2 · 14/09/2021 16:46

@butterpuffed

When you mentioned the flooring , OP, I thought you meant you had re-carpeted, not that you had removed the old carpet and replaced with wooden flooring . And you're bothered about the paint !!!
How do you mean? After three years here the carpet in the lounge and hall started to look rough in high traffic areas. I regularly cleaned it and hoovered it twice a day but it just looked grotty and horrible. I approached the landlord about replacing it and was told no, so I went back and asked if I could do it at my expense. LL said yes. I approved with LL that I'd prefer hardwood flooring and I spend £1400 on it with installation. It's been great with children and still looks mint. I paid extra for the heavy duty stuff. The LL got photos of the floor after installation and said it looked great. I know the floor is theirs now, I get that. I just don't want to spend weeks and big sums of money redecorating the house.
OP posts: