...to be absolutely disgusted by Michael Gove's comments?

[MaryMcCarthy]

I suppose we all knew what Thatcherism and the modern Conservatives were about, but to hear it spoken out loud, with such disdain, just makes me so angry. Whether he said it last week or last century I'm just boiling with rage at how such callous sociopaths can rise to such high positions of power. I dare say we need a revolution in this country.

@Claudethecat - 40 years ago golliwogs were used on jam for advertising and sold as toys - people blacked up and performed as minstrels etc. It was hardly the progressive society of now!

Whenever I've heard non white people talking about growing up during that era it's been widely discussed how prevalent views and comments like that were - I'm am 100% saying these comments are wrong - but it's not a comment he made last week as a mature adult with the society knowledge we have now, it was made in a society where things were very very different.

He's a tory. You just have to assume they are dickheads.

I was a qualified nurse around the time he was saying those disgusting things, no it was not the normal way to talk!!! It definitely bloody well wasn’t

@SusieBob

He's a tory. You just have to assume they are dickheads.

All tories are not the same you know

I hope everyone from the red wall seats listens to that and hear what the cabinet really think of them.

Gove. Rees-Mogg. Johnson. Racist, elitist, misogynists the lot of them.

[quote santaslittlehohoho]@Claudethecat - 40 years ago golliwogs were used on jam for advertising and sold as toys - people blacked up and performed as minstrels etc. It was hardly the progressive society of now!

Whenever I've heard non white people talking about growing up during that era it's been widely discussed how prevalent views and comments like that were - I'm am 100% saying these comments are wrong - but it's not a comment he made last week as a mature adult with the society knowledge we have now, it was made in a society where things were very very different. [/quote]
The Minstrels were gone by the late 70s I think. The term Gove used was NOTthe norm amongst non racists.

It really wasn’t ok. He was an abhorrent human then and now.

I mean... he's a Tory. This is what they're like.

Anyone who's not an Eton-educated bigot who thinks the Tories have their best interests at heart is quite frankly delusional.

Someone might wonder why this is surfacing now rather than during Brexit or when he was SoS for Education? Is someone cutting down the field for the next leadership campaign to be be PM and/or has his roof left him unprotected?

@witchbaby there are degrees of how much of a dickhead they are. It just happens that Johnson's cabinet score particularly highly. e.g.

Williamson being 'mistaken' last week that he had met Marcus Rashford because he had another black sportman interested in childrens wellbeing

Hancock getting knocked off his high-horse on social distancing by being caught on camera conducting an extra-marital affair

Rees-Mogg blaming the victims of Grenfell for following the guidance of the fire service to remain in situe.

So either Johnson is a bad judge of character or they are all like that? But please do point out the honourable Tory MPs?

@itsgrand

I'm not sticking up for him as such but to be fair though it was 40 years ago? the world is a different place now and there is more awareness and consciousness than there was in the 80's. Rightly or wrongly racism, misogyny, middle class snobbery, xenophobia and Thatcherism was the norm.

Which is why, when he used a racial slur, they all laughed and clapped along.

No, wait a minute - there was simply a shout of 'shame!'.

This was not the norm.

@Claudethecat @santaslittlehohoho A side point but didn't Baddiel use blackface much more recently than 40 years ago? 25 perhaps?

[quote RumblyMumbly]@witchbaby there are degrees of how much of a dickhead they are. It just happens that Johnson's cabinet score particularly highly. e.g.

Williamson being 'mistaken' last week that he had met Marcus Rashford because he had another black sportman interested in childrens wellbeing

Hancock getting knocked off his high-horse on social distancing by being caught on camera conducting an extra-marital affair

Rees-Mogg blaming the victims of Grenfell for following the guidance of the fire service to remain in situe.

So either Johnson is a bad judge of character or they are all like that? But please do point out the honourable Tory MPs?[/quote]

Oh I agree the current lot are abysmal.

And if anyone needs reminding of the UK PMs racist and sexist remarks here's a handy round up:

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

Who will the Conservative Party think is most likely to win the next election and who will the power brokers choose to support? With the potential for a Public Enquiry and arguably criminal charges on the horizon, who currently in a position to influence things will be seeking allies for a run or for protection? He might be a busted flush but who has Dominic Cummings been sp[ending time with? Who has been in the press with populist stories? Who has been meeting the real sources of power and funding?

[quote Zilla1]**@Claudethecat* @santaslittlehohoho* A side point but didn't Baddiel use blackface much more recently than 40 years ago? 25 perhaps?[/quote]
I think it was in the 90s.

Gove is younger than me. I was a (slightly) mature student at the same time. There was a lot of casual racism out there but it was not the norm and was not acceptable.

@WitchBaby

Oh dear I was going to say it's 40 years ago, let it go. But having read it

that was my reaction exactly! terrible isnt it. It's like he was ticking every single box to be an asshole misogony - tick sexist jokes - tick homophobia - tick racism - tick snobbery - tick

I actually listened to some of the speeches .......... the smugness of him as well!

The interesting thing is not so much what he said (it's standard fare for a Tory at Oxbridge in the 80s or 90s, I'd have thought) but why it's coming out now.

Anything to do with his recent divorce? Someone worrying that he may take a stab at the leadership (not that it would hamper his chances, it's nothing that Johnson hasn't said and it didn't stop him getting the job)?

He's a couple of years older than me. It wasn't OK to talk that way then. He was and educated middle class young man. There's no excuse.

I'm older than Gove and it wouldn't have been acceptable in my circle when I was younger than him.

@GCAcademic yes. why when he was arguably the most controversial SoS for Education (possibly Williamson has taken that crown) then with Brexit, why now?

Could be someone spiking his guns and/or his roof throwing him to the wolves?

Perhaps his recent decision and behaviour and the news that may be announced soon has changed his trajectory?

I suppose an alternative is that someone is clearing the decks for his leadership challenge of issues like the divorce and this and 'other things' so it can be called 'old news' down the line and not cause a campaign to lose momentum.

I despise this current cabinet and know that's how they think, but I'm extremely shocked that he said that in public. The twitter post someone linked to upthread has an audio. Only 27 seconds long but utterly shocking. Wow.

Thanks for bringing it up, OP ..I had not heard it

Do you really think someone that expressed views like that in 1993 are likely to have changed? People don't change that much.

Those views were odious then as now. All that has happened is people are a little more careful about what they say out loud now.