AIBU to offer help with deposit, rather than a bed

[JustLyra]

For background - my siblings and I had an abusive childhood. Our parents were drug addled alcoholics. My father was sadistic and violent, my mother was a nasty enabler. I'm the youngest of four, my eldest brother is 9 years older than me (one of my earliest memories was being given the nickname 'the mistake' by my father) and was 7 when we were taken by my grandparents when they realised how bad it had got thanks to my teacher.

A number of years ago my father was terminally ill in a hospice. My sister decided to visit him. This led to eldest brother decreeing we all should. I've been cut out (after a lot of shouting, threats, and nastiness) for refusing anything to do with visiting him, organising or attending his funeral. It was a very, very nasty time with some really horrible stuff being said and done. Mostly by eldest brother, but other brother and sister backed him up.

Eldest brother married young and his wife doted on me. In my teens she was like a cross between a big sister and an Aunty. As my GP's were old she was the one who helped me buy fashionable clothes and talked me through the range of sanitary products. It was very upsetting losing contact with her and my nieces and nephews over the saga with my siblings (she was banned from contact with me).

There was an incident where my brother assaulted his wife. She left him and came with my nieces and nephews to stay with us while she sorted out somewhere to live. Sadly after a couple of months she decided to take him back. At that point one of my nephews, who was almost 15, refused to return to the family home. He has lived with us since. My brother was extremely nasty to his own son - he even tried to sabotage the process of nephew showing he was financially estranged from his parents when he wanted to go to uni.

One of my nieces has now realised what a vile bully her father is. She has asked to come and stay with us until she saves for a deposit for a rental flat. She thinks it would take her around five or six months as she works very part time around college.

However since taking in nephew I have a younger child who is severely disabled, plus my MIL now lives with us. Lockdown was horrendous last year with everyone home all the time, medical appointments coming out of my ears and stress levels extremely high. We're just about getting everyone back on an even keel. I'm not entirely sure I could cope with my brother starting on me again - when nephew moved in here we ended up having to call the police 11 times when he turned up.

Would it be really shitty to say that we can't put her up, but we could give/lend her the deposit for a roomshare or flat? Technically we have space as the four eldest, including nephew, are at Uni, but they all come home in the holidays so then it would be a nightmare as my niece doesn't get on with any of the other teens. That may change now that she's realised what her Dad is like, but she's said and done some horrific stuff to her brother over the last few years so having them both here isn't an option really.
At the same time though she's 18 so not helping her seems really crap.

You are taking on too much. Does she have other family who could help?

She has asked to come and stay with us until she saves for a deposit for a rental flat. She thinks it would take her around five or six months as she works very part time around college.

A deposit is normally equivalent to 4 or 5 weeks rent. If it's going to take her that long to save up a deposit, how will she afford to pay the rent on an ongoing basis - and buy things like food?

I would suggest talking to the college's pastoral team. They will know if there's other places she might be able to go (YMCA?)

You are amazing. I absolutely would offer the deposit. You need to think of yourself in this situation. X

This might sound callous but I would resist any urge to take her into your home, as I am suspicious that she is being put up to this by her father in order to destabilise your situation and in particular her brother’s life.

If she has been manipulated into damaging things at your home before I would wonder why and how things have changed so much that she now wants to escape her current home life.

Be very wary, but do offer a deposit if she can realistically earn enough to pay monthly rent. And DO NOT sign anything as a guarantor or you might be left in a real pickle when she runs out on her responsibilities.

I think you need to think very carefully about what terms under which you can accept her staying with you. Will she have to contribute, chores, money? What house rules will she have to abide by? No going into her brothers room, destroying other peoples belongings, treating everyone with respect etc etc. Apologise to her brother.

Once you've decided that, sit and talk with her. You can come and live with us on these terms, OR I can help you to find out about housing, deposit (would this be a gift or loan) etc. As pp said, don't agree to being a guarantor. And maybe offer that she can come over once or twice a week for dinner etc.

You honestly sound like a saint - the amount you have done to help others deal with the repercussions of your terrible childhood is amazing.

It is totally reasonable for you to preserve the living situation of the people you currently live with. You don’t have to jeopardise their well-being, or your own, by offering your niece a place to stay. Giving or lending her the deposit for her own place is more than generous and will help her get to where she wants to be even faster.

You only need one week’s rent for a deposit on an AST as you can just pay for an insurance scheme instead. But as your niece is only working a few hours, how would she afford the rent?

Would you consider letting her stay temporarily and get her sorted with somewhere before the others come back from uni? Or would that affect benefits?

I don't have unlimited space or money

I dont have an answer for you, but my worry would be, whatever you do, would you then feel you have to do with the younger children?

Sounds like you have a lot on your plate OP.

Why does MiL live with you? Do you care for her? DH works away? What about your nephew? Sounds like a full house and way too much for you already.

Thanks for all the replies. I’m considering all the options carefully.

@WildfirePonie MIL lives with us because she was lonely after FIL died. She was here most days. She’s a wonderful woman and there’s no care involved, there’s a plan in place for when she does need care so it’s not falling on me or DH. She’s worth her weight in gold.
DH working away here and there is not ideal, and it’s not long term, but one of us had to give up work when DD was young as she needed (and to an extent still does) full time care. At the same time DH had this job opportunity and I got made redundant. The decision kinda made itself. It’s tough, but it’s financially worthwhile. As well as paying for help now (cleaner, respite, private physio, my pension etc) it’s giving us a good chance to save as DD’s care needs will likely get more and may need us both around a lot (or full time carers) so we need to have the funds for that.
I also have a flat that I rent out so being practical and having been told at a support group how many marriages fail when a severely disabled child is in the family (wonderfully supportive and just what we didn’t need to hear) it also made more sense for DH to keep an income.
DN lives here. He shares a room with DS1. They live in the same house share at Uni. He’s not a bother at all.

Life has been difficult, but before lockdown we got into a good place. In fact even once lockdown settled we got into a good place. The house is busy, but with DH being weeks on and off we actually have a lot of family time - more quality than when we were both working 5 days.

Things are good - that’s why I’m quite so nervous about rocking the Apple cart again.

I’m concerned because she was so nasty toward her brother. And I won’t lie - I’m concerned because there are two more younger siblings in that house and I can’t just take in child after child.

Op
You have so many irons in the fire at the minute that I think I would my rock the boat by introducing a whole new dynamic.
I would tell your dn that you cant offer a plane to stay but you will look for suitable places for her and gift her the deposit to help her. You have more than just her to consider at this stage .

@violetbunny

I would offer her the deposit, but pay it directly to the landlord rather than just giving her the cash.

this ^

no i would not have her in my home if she has behaved like that!

OP your nephew was younger than her when he came to live with you. I think she needs lots of support, but living with you isn't necessarily the best way for that. I think there's a real question though about what she needs, and what she's willing to admit to needing - so, she said she wanted to stay to save for a deposit, but doest she really want exposure to a 'normal' family dynamic, to be with people to love her unconditionally? Will she internalise you refusing to help her when you helped her nephew as a sign everything her father has said is right?

I think you've gone above and beyond, and wonder if the best thing is to explain to her that you want to offer her love and support but you think she'll be able to access other services if she leaves through them, you're prepared to talk to a landlord and pay a deposit, and you'd still like her involved in your family. Could you do something like have her over for dinner a couple of nights a week? Would she be able to manage on her own, is there any kind of more structured accommodation she could access?

It sounds like having her in your house wouldn't be ideal, but I understand why you'd want to manage it carefully. You've done so incredibly well though to get to where you are with so little love and support, and to be able to support so many family members through it all. This shouldn't be another burden you feel you have to take on.

OP,
You are a great woman who has made a success of her life despite your parents best efforts.

It would be a really hard NO from me.

I don't care what your brother is like, your niece has a rotten streak in her for damaging the property of others in your home.

She would not be given the opportunity to cause further strife.

Helping her by paying a deposit for a room elsewhere, directly to a landlord is a kind and generous idea.

You do not owe your brothers children anything, so I would nip any feelings of entitlement in the bud that she may have.

She has poor character to do what she did to her brother and there is no way she would be staying in my house.

Your first responsibility is to your family and maintaining a calm home for them.

You need to mind yourself too.
You are only one woman, who can only do so much.

Don't run yourself into the ground, it will be your family that lose out.

18 is really young to move out on her own, especially with the behaviour you have described.

I wonder if the college has any accommodation provision she could move into? Or speak to the local council homeless/housing team as there may be some kind of project that has support in place? Obviously not a hostel as she may end up in a worse position but I know our local council has a young people's housing service whereby they're supported into a tenancy but then have at least weekly visits/budgeting courses and other things to help them succeed.
Also I'd like to add that I'm very sorry that you're in this situation but well done for trying to help and getting to where you are today xx

My niece won’t be moving in with us.

I’m not sure what is going to happen at the moment, but her attitude toward my DH and I when we met for lunch wasn’t good.

It’s actually left DH feeling that there is a strong chance this is a deliberate ploy just in time for her to start looking at unis - because he is financially estranged from his parents my nephew gets the full maintenance loan which niece wouldn’t get based on my brother’s income. She also seemed under the impression he got preference when applying for places.

She also messaged the kids at Uni in a way that suggested to them her moving in was a done deal, which obviously surprised and upset them as they were expecting a discussion (DH and I have the final say on things, but with big things we always listen to the kids opinions before deciding). It’s left me very unsure of her and DH completely adamant that she can have help and support, but she’s not staying here.

She’s made an appointment with someone from her college welfare dept and I’ve agreed to go with her, but I’m not committing to anything else at this moment.

Thanks for all the helpful replies. It was very useful to mull over all the opinions while thinking about it all.

Please don’t let her go to a YMCA type of place, I know someone who had to go there at a similar age due to a situation completely out of their control. These places are expensive and if you work over 16 hours a week you have to pay for your rent - this led to a cycle of not being able to go to college as couldn’t afford transport there, so ended up in dead end jobs but only up to 16 hours a week as a full time job wouldn’t haven’t covered the rent and support at YMCA. Until the person was in their late 20’s, back living with parents and went to uni…
There is also a lot of people with vulnerabilities - sounds like your DNi would also be one of them, leading to an unhealthy mix of behaviours…

Living on her own / house share, whilst it wouldn’t be favourable - if she was local and you could support (physically not financially) that way… may be better?

She sounds like she is her father's daughter.

I honestly don't know why you are getting dragged into her business.

She is not nice and I think OP you should be listening to your husband.

He has a clearer view in this instance.

I think you may being played.

Yes it sounds like she's playing you to manipulate the maximum uni grant.

I honestly don't know why you are getting dragged into her business.

Because she’s my niece and she’s 18.

Believe me - helping her with an appointment like that and pointing her in the right direction rather than trying to fix everything is massive for me.

But for my sake I need to know that I did the right thing. I’ll make sure she has all of the options in front of her and knows where all of the support is. Then I can sleep easier knowing I didn’t just not care.

I also think it will help going forward. I’ve already pointed out that our help hindered my nephew in some ways. He’d have got far more help without us taking him in. This way it’ll be clear to the rest, if it is a vile attempt to get a better loan and assistance through Uni, that we won’t be picking up all the pieces as we did last time.