AIBU - I have called the GP over 200 times this morning

[IAmADancer]

Just that. I need to get a blood test referral for menopause symptoms but I can’t get through. I started calling at 8am and have called over 200 times. It’s still engaged.

I know that if I call back at 10am when it’s quieter they will tell me there are no appointments and to call back tomorrow. Then you go through the same routine all over again. I just want to access basic care. Feeling very frustrated

It is really rough right now. A friend, with potential heart attack symptoms was firmly told it wasn't urgent recently, no doubt MNetters would have been agreeing with the Dr on that one

It got worse, she ended up in A&E and now waits on referrals, saga of blood pressure all over has been more than a fortnight.

When my Dad was phone g the gp about heart attack symptoms he was swept up in a wave by the GP - smoothly through to hospital and diagnosed and cleared the "system" in a few days.

If it's like our surgery, you get the busy signal, no queue. You hang up redial and keep getting busy until it answers.

We get this till pick up go through whole menu of options then it's your No 5 - it's not been more than 5 and then you wait another 15 minutes to get answered.

So they must be getting a lot of calls which can't be helped by funnelling everyone into those two hours - last time I looked blood tests results as well.

They have reception staff - 3 - later in the day as I've dropped persciptions and taken DD1 to appointments - but there must be a reason for them to do this.

Bagamoyo - you’re asking a valid question, what is the solution?
Can I ask how many patients you have on your books? Is it considered a ‘normal’ amount per GP?

The obvious answer is another surgery altogether, with the same number of staff, then halve the patients between you. Not an easy or very doable solution I don’t suppose, but it’s what a market driven situation would do, ie restaurant, accountant, etc.

I’m your specific case, add weekends?
Have 2 separate phone systems for the on the day/urgent & non-urgent phone calls?
A separate system for those happy to divert to online appts? Eg if I knew I had tonsilitis, I’d be happy to have a zoom appt, and pick up the prescription later.
Link up with a pharmacy (probably already do this) and train up more pharmacists/hcas and inform patients they can go there for various ailments instead of a nurse/GP appt?

Just throwing ideas out.

The problem with having pre-bookable appointments is that they all get booked up weeks in advance.
We used to have a system of about 80% pre-bookable, and 20% urgent on the day. The problem was that people would then be offered an appointment in 6 -8 weeks. They didn't feel they could wait that long, but equally they didn't feel their problem was urgent. There was nowhere for them to go. So we introduced non-urgent-book-on-the-day, but they fill up by 8.30am.
The number of GPs has gone down by about 2000 in the past few years, in the time period that the government promised an extra 5000 GPs! There just aren't enough of us to meet the demand. Meanwhile houses are built and people move in and register with us, and our list size goes up and up.

@lljkk

mmm... I have a neighbour who has been waiting for ankle surgery for > 2 yrs. He is in chronic pain. He can't walk independently more than a few steps. The treatment delay came hot on heels of his wife suddenly dying. So he's had to get thru pandemic stress & bereavement & all the leg issues with little formal NHS support.

I humbly submit he needs ankle surgery far more urgently than OP needs a blood test. Some physio in meantime would have helped him retain fitness, too.

His treatment wasn't delayed or accelerated due to his sex or age.

But sure, make your situation into a political womens-rights proclamation on all NhS policies. If that makes you happy, crack on.

I've been waiting to have a knee problem sorted for 2.5 years. The pathway for referrals is via the "musculo-skeletal service".

They were woefully inefficient. There was a 6 month wait to see an "advanced practitioner", because the ordinary practitioners aren't allowed to refer. The AP wanted x-rays done, but my GP had done them right at the outset. I asked my GP to send the x-ray results through to her, which they did the same day as I asked. After several weeks, I rang, and she decided she needed the images as well as the report, so I got these sent too.

After several weeks more of hearing nothing, I rang again. A few days later, she rung me to say she needed an MRI scan. That was delayed due to Covid.

Two or three months after the MRI, I rang again to ask what was happening. She hadn't even looked at the results, and it took her another 2 weeks to look at them and tell me what my GP had told me nearly 2 weeks earlier, ie that I needed surgery. I was referred to the surgeon in June last year, had an appointment in early December where he agreed I needed surgery, and I'm having a partial knee replacement next week.

Like your neighbour, I lost my partner during all this and now have to cope alone while recovering.

If the musculo-skeletal service had actually dealt promptly with things at each stage, that may well not have been the case, but they don't seem to do anything until you chase them up.

I'm so pissed off and anxious about I can't tell you, but I'm relieved that something is happening at last.

I honestly think they hope you'll die of old age and not need expensive surgery if they can just piss you about for long enough.

@Bagamoyo1

Can I ask people what the solution is?

At our surgery we have several receptionists and several phones, and they answer the phones as soon as it rings. The second they put the phone down it rings again and they answer.
We have enough consulting rooms in our surgery to house enough doctors and nurses at a ratio of about 1 doctor per 2000 patients (standard quota). All the rooms are used all day Monday-Friday. Every doctor and nurse has a full surgery morning and afternoon.

So we can't employ more doctors/nurses as there aren't any spare rooms. We can't create more rooms as there's no space for them (we've already extended once and lost some car park).
We can't work longer hours as we already work 8-8.

We can't find more doctors even if we had the room (in fact we have actually advertised for an extra doctor, thinking we could use the meeting room as a consulting room, but we haven't had a single applicant).

Our doctor to patient ratio is normal, and has been the same for the 25+ years I've worked there.

The fact that our surgeries are all full means that clearly some patients are able to get through on the phone.

So tell me, if you were given the job of improving access at my surgery, what would you do? I'm especially interested as we have had this discussion countless times, and have yet to find a solution.

The solution is that as the government knew that they had an aging population, and were pushing the management of more things into the community, they should have invested in a greater number of GPs/GP surgeries per head

This is not a falling of individual surgeries (mostly). It is a problem with systematic under investment

@Bigtruth

You don't need an emergency same day appointment for menopause symptoms. Call at 9 or 10 and book yourself in.

It's people like you who cause the whole backlog I'm afraid, desperate for same day appointments for stuff like this.

My surgery only do on the day appointments. If I have a non-serious issue I’m not able to call and ask to be booked in in a few weeks, I can only repeatedly call in the morning for a same day appointment. And they don’t offer online booking either.

@GreenFingersWouldBeHandy

Also for those saying it’s not urgent, no offence but you are not me

Well, no offence but you do not need an emergency appointment. You don't have a life-threatening condition. You're not ask risk of injury or dying. You're just tired and pissed off.

Does your surgery have a website/online options? Otherwise, just wait until it's quiet and you can speak to someone.

Obviously if the OP had a life-threatening condition or was at risk of injury or dying she would not be going to her GP she would be going to the ED. What a stupid comment.

@LivingInABuildingSite

Bagamoyo - you’re asking a valid question, what is the solution? Can I ask how many patients you have on your books? Is it considered a ‘normal’ amount per GP?

The obvious answer is another surgery altogether, with the same number of staff, then halve the patients between you. Not an easy or very doable solution I don’t suppose, but it’s what a market driven situation would do, ie restaurant, accountant, etc.

I’m your specific case, add weekends?
Have 2 separate phone systems for the on the day/urgent & non-urgent phone calls?
A separate system for those happy to divert to online appts? Eg if I knew I had tonsilitis, I’d be happy to have a zoom appt, and pick up the prescription later.
Link up with a pharmacy (probably already do this) and train up more pharmacists/hcas and inform patients they can go there for various ailments instead of a nurse/GP appt?

Just throwing ideas out.

We have just over 2000 patients per doctor, which is pretty standard. We would like fewer but we have no choice - if patients are in our area and want to register, we aren't allowed to turn them away.

What would be the point of opening another surgery? There are no GPs to work in them. Vacancies lie empty for years. A local practice closed down recently because one by one the doctors retired and no replacements could be found.

2 phone systems makes no difference - there are still the same number of phone lines and staff to answer them. We can't have more phones and staff as there isn't the space.

Online and zoom appointments are still appointments, still requiring doctor time.

We have 2 pharmacists who do medication reviews, and incidentally many patients are angry and refuse to speak to "just a pharmacist".

We have nurses who are trained prescribers and urgent care practitioners, who are also fully booked all day every day.

Weekends - well we can't all work 7 days a week, so if we worked weekends we'd have to have days off in the week, and the net gain would be zero.

I have spent literally hundreds of hours in meetings over the years, discussing how to improve access. Since I started 25 years ago we have probably doubled the number of appointments we offer (built an extension, employed more staff, worked longer hours), but it's still not enough.

@lljkk

mmm... I have a neighbour who has been waiting for ankle surgery for > 2 yrs. He is in chronic pain. He can't walk independently more than a few steps. The treatment delay came hot on heels of his wife suddenly dying. So he's had to get thru pandemic stress & bereavement & all the leg issues with little formal NHS support.

I humbly submit he needs ankle surgery far more urgently than OP needs a blood test. Some physio in meantime would have helped him retain fitness, too.

His treatment wasn't delayed or accelerated due to his sex or age.

But sure, make your situation into a political womens-rights proclamation on all NhS policies. If that makes you happy, crack on.

I think you are being entirely unfair. She just wants an appt and is following her Dr surgery rules to get one. My gp is similar doesn't matter if it is urgent or non urgent you still ring between 8 and 10 and cannot get an appt at another time. But you carry on with your unpleasant posts.

The fact is that the NHS has been chronically underfunded for decades, despite the ageing population being known about. It's been hanging by a thread for years, and Covid has tipped it over the edge.

As a population we are getting older, with more complex needs, and higher expectations of duration and quality of life. Meeting these needs costs money, and the money wasn't spent when it should have been.

There are always ways to contact your gp surgery online. It's in the contract.

In order to contact my surgery online you need to register and then turn up at the surgery with two forms of ID so they can give you a login. All reasonable to protect patient information of course.
However, it is currently impossible to do this as the doors are locked and you are only allowed in with an appointment. If you turn up with the ID, and knock on the window to talk to them (the only way to talk to them) they say they aren’t doing that at the moment and won’t look at it. They then slam the window shut.
I know this because it happened to me last week.

@BigWoollyJumpers

All those pp's who have terrible service from their GP's. Why don't you move? There is no obligation to go to your local GP, you can literally register wherever, closer to work for example. Find one that has on-line access, email requests for phone-backs etc etc. Holding on the phone for hours is unacceptable, and bad management.

Haha, that’s a laugh. If only it was that easy. Although it came into law a few years ago that people could register anywhere, very very few practices do it. Nowhere in Shropshire does for example so we are stuck with our one local one who were actually classed as dangerous in their last inspection.

The NHS is crap and all these people singing its praises obviously haven’t been failed by it yet. You wait until you lose someone needlessly….because you will.

If you'd like a FSH test privately I bought a self-test kit from Superdrug. The lab get back to you v.quickly with the result. It should be done ideally early on in your cycle (day 3/4)

Unfortunately testing hormone levels to confirm perimenopause is very unreliable and it's not recommended. Mine came back normal despite having lots of symptoms.

My GP practice has gone to shit so I'm trying contraceptive pills to see if that helps, and I'm on a waiting list for a private women's health clinic.

Totally shocked that some people are giving the OP a hard time. It is not unreasonable to expect to access a doctor. I am sure if her surgery allowed advance appointments then she would make one.

The menopause isn’t an urgent issue but you don’t see your GP for just urgent issues. Where else would she go?

And yes, although the menopause isn’t life threatening is can be life changing. Lack of sleep for months, years is more than just being tired, hot flushes are completely draining and suck the life out of you. Plus all the other symptoms that women suffer from, obviously it is different for everyone. For me it is itching. The gouges where I keep scratching when half asleep. They hurt, I can’t always wear a bra or anything close fitting, the heat, especially at night, the brain fog, migraines, aches and pains.

OP I hope you manage to get an appointment. Just realise blood tests don’t always show if you are menopausal

Pre covid

You could ring the surgery at any time of the day…you may be in a queue….you could make an appointment in advance (usually you had no choice, quite often appointments would be 6 weeks in advance!)…if you felt it was urgent you could speak to the triage nurse who would give you advice or make a same day appointment with them or make a same day appointment with a doctor or make a future appointment

Now

You ring at 8am….if the queue is too long it will hang up on you….you can only make a same day appointment IF there are any appointments left

@Bagamoyo1

The fact is that the NHS has been chronically underfunded for decades, despite the ageing population being known about. It's been hanging by a thread for years, and Covid has tipped it over the edge.

As a population we are getting older, with more complex needs, and higher expectations of duration and quality of life. Meeting these needs costs money, and the money wasn't spent when it should have been.

This is very true.

And I take all your responses to my suggestions, I just don’t know what else to suggest. You’d have thought of it already anyway I’m sure.

The long term answer is more: more doctors, more nurses, more all levels of staff involved.

And maybe not move houses built everywhere that’s already full!

You wait until you lose someone needlessly….because you will

This was my MIL a few years ago

I sympathize, but what are the point of these GP surgery threads?

The government have failed to recruit and retain GPs despite an aging population. There is a nationwide shortage and GP surgeries are doing the best that they can. What more can they do if there's no GPs to recruit?

Don't bash overworked and over-stressed GPs, bash the government who have failed GP surgeries and the NHS.

What do you honestly expect the surgery to do? Do you think they love having a constant stream of angry patients calling them up?

I was sent a text saying I needed to book an annual health check to take bloods and then see the nurse 2 weeks later. The day after I go for my appointment I get a letter to say I need to have my bloods taken. As there was a shortage of blood tubes they were only able to do one test. I saw the HCA, who was lovely but she didn't tell me that. There were only 2 of us in the waiting room as our doctors are doing telephone consults. OP should be offered one of those and then the dr could book her blood test with the HCA, her blood test might be nothing more than anaemia for example which she could get treated. Doesn't mean she's not feeling unwell.

On our local BBC news the commentator said that for every covid patient in hospital 6 or 8 procedures, depending on the surgery, were cancelled. I think we're expecting mask wearing and working from home to continue now.

I feel for you op - it's completely unacceptable.

And as for posters confidently telling op what her GP surgery does and does not so please read the thread! Why does MN attract these types- keen to tell you that your own experience isn't right despite knowing nothing about you or where you live!

My advice is to complain to the practise manager about the fact that they don't offer ore booked appointments and that you need to be seen. That sometimes produces results.

The GP system definitely needs reform (I used to work for a big practice). They know the phone system is crap but have no incentive to change it. I'd charge GPs surgery for every patient that turns up at urgent care after not being able to get an appointment- hitting them in the pocket is the only way to drive the improvements.

I gave up after two pages, but re the shortage of blood vials, I’m really shocked that some surgeries are still doing routine blood tests.

My dad needs a blood test for cancer (secondary in his spine, to see if the medication to control it is working) they needed a request from the regional medical director for cancer services in order to agree to it. Took mum days of phoning around to get it.

@India92

I sympathize, but what are the point of these GP surgery threads?

The government have failed to recruit and retain GPs despite an aging population. There is a nationwide shortage and GP surgeries are doing the best that they can. What more can they do if there's no GPs to recruit?

Don't bash overworked and over-stressed GPs, bash the government who have failed GP surgeries and the NHS.

What do you honestly expect the surgery to do? Do you think they love having a constant stream of angry patients calling them up?

Lack of GP's today is also partly the fault of Blair/Brown who didn't increase medical school/training places by anywhere near enough during their 13 years in power either. The current government "could" double or treble medical school places, but that wouldn't "cure" the GP shortage until another 10 years or so! You can't train GPs in a few months!

@IAmADancer

Just that. I need to get a blood test referral for menopause symptoms but I can’t get through. I started calling at 8am and have called over 200 times. It’s still engaged.

I know that if I call back at 10am when it’s quieter they will tell me there are no appointments and to call back tomorrow. Then you go through the same routine all over again. I just want to access basic care. Feeling very frustrated

I did that for 3 months straight, every working day, until I managed to get an appointment once.

Fucking joke.

@Bagamoyo1

The problem with having pre-bookable appointments is that they all get booked up weeks in advance. We used to have a system of about 80% pre-bookable, and 20% urgent on the day. The problem was that people would then be offered an appointment in 6 -8 weeks. They didn't feel they could wait that long, but equally they didn't feel their problem was urgent. There was nowhere for them to go. So we introduced non-urgent-book-on-the-day, but they fill up by 8.30am. The number of GPs has gone down by about 2000 in the past few years, in the time period that the government promised an extra 5000 GPs! There just aren't enough of us to meet the demand. Meanwhile houses are built and people move in and register with us, and our list size goes up and up.

Yes!!

But people aren’t interested in the bigger picture, generally speaking they just want to complain when they can’t get what they want and direct that at the closest person