Work now tells everyone why you’re off? AIBU to think it’s a bit naff?

[ContactTraced]

At work we’ve recently appointed a new senior manager. They’ve brought with them a new sickness policy…

First; no more emailing in; you have to call his mobile directly and explain why you are going to be off.

Second; and this is the bit I think is a bit crap… and email comes out everyday with a list of who is not in the building and why, it doesn’t go into masses of detail but does say if someone is “WFH” “Meeting” or “Sick” for example.

This is supposedly so we can “support” in places where they might have a lot of people off, but AIBU to think this is a little crap; and is actually meant to encourage presenteeism… which is a bit irresponsible considering the pandemic isn’t over yet!

That is not me pulling information from my arse that is something I know has been confirmed by the ICO.

I suspect someone has misunderstood what the ICO has said told them.

It is not against GDPR to tell people that a member of staff is off sick. It IS against GDPR if the sickness record is shared with staff.

You might argue there is a confidentiality issue, but there is not a GDPR breach.

@BoredZeldaI don't think that the Data Protection Officer with over 20 years of experience miss understood their conversation with the ICO.

The list may not be a problem with a one-day stomach bug. But if you are having, for example, two days off every other week because you are sick from chemotherapy treatment or you have a flare-up of your autoimmune disease, or you are struggling with your mental health or you have really bad morning sickness and for any one of those reasons you are trying to keep it as private as possible and do not want to talk about it you absolute right for it to remain private.

There is Legitimate Interest for a direct manager and colleagues to know. There is, however, no legitimate interest for the whole company to know. It absolutely breaches your personal data for people to be able to work out, from the list being sent, that you may be taking a lot of sick days off or having a lot of medical appointments and then they either ask you about it or start rumours.

This is not about the ICO fining companies or even getting involved. It is not just about looking at the odd sick day. But there may be people who are dealing with a lot and have an absolute right for that information to be kept as private as necessary.

So I am not just spouting GDPR, I am not being ridiculous and yes this person who explained it to me knows their shit.

So in answer to OPs question, unless the company can show a legal basis they have no right to share that information with the whole company.

Completely normal in the NHS. Why wouldn't you phone in? Unless you're in a coma you can still talk even though feeling rough.

There is a valid reason and that's making sure your staff are ok. Them phoning you could lead to all sorts of discoveries such as domestic abuse that otherwise might not be noticed.

So long as you don't divulge personal information such as "Tom is off with waterworks problems again" or "Angie has been up all night with menopausal night sweats and is exhausted" your not breaking any GDPR rules.

We used to get mails to the department with,"Pete is off with gastric illness" and things like that. Fortunately, these days it's just, "Pete will be out for the rest of the week," or whatever. I was half-tempted to come up with some deeply embarrassing illness before that, but (touch wood), I'm not often sick.

At one point, we used to get a list of why employees in the USA had had their employment terminated, which was a bit of an eye-opener. They have tightened a lot in the last decade or so.

Mind you, when we weren't told why a particular, unpopular manager was out for 3 months, the rumour mill went wild, with some people even wondering if he had to serve a short prison sentence. Which tells you a lot about what people thought of him. (It was something health-related, I think we found out in the end.)

It's useful to know people are out of the office and for how long, and to know if work is covered. Beyond that, it doesn't matter, though I would keep my line manager informed if it was going to be on-going/long-term. But I trust my current manager - the previous one I'd have only shared what is absolutely necessary.

We get emails “Jill is off sick today and Joe has a medical appointment but will be in after lunchtime”. It’s helpful to know when we get phone calls or emails for them from clients. We don’t get details, no breach of privacy.

I'm in public service in Victoria and there is only one description to cover sickness: Personal Leave. It also covers appointments to see solicitors/hospital/long service leave.

The person calls in and says I'm taking Personal Leave and sets their lessons. They have to record the leave in the state's system and upload certificates.

It seems to work.

Sorry, should have said the absence bulletin that goes out to all staff at school would read: echt Personal Leave, All Day.

We get emails “Jill is off sick today and Joe has a medical appointment but will be in after lunchtime”. It’s helpful to know when we get phone calls or emails for them from clients. We don’t get details, no breach of privacy.

But it could just say, "Jill is out today. Joe is out this morning, but will be in after lunchtime." You don't need to mention sickness or medical appointments at all.

I don't have a problem with this. It means you know who you can contact and who you should leave alone. Mentioning Covid is sensible because it means people who were in contact with them can take precautions. As long as it's 'sick' and not 'Sandra's uterus has prolapsed' or 'Geoff has a suspected dose of the clap', then I don't see the problem.

That is appalling. You'd think with vacancies at an all time high companies would be realising that they need to improve pay and conditions and give staff autonomy, flexibility and respect if they want to retain them.

@ContactTraced

Sorry I wasn’t clear.

If someone is off with covid or has to isolate it says “Covid”
If someone has a medical appointment it says “Medical”
If someone has just called in sick with anything but covid it says “Sick”

I think they are breaching GDPR guidelines by sharing personal data in that manner without permission and when that is not the purpose for which it was provided? It's completely unacceptable.

As for phoning in for sickness, I do not understand what the purpose of it is? Surely it's less admin for all involved to email. Managers should have better things to do with their time and a poorly employee is unlikely to feel like speaking on the phone. We have always just emailed our direct boss and blocked out the day as unavailable in our shared calendar. I can't see why anything further would be necessary.

@MrsSchadenfreude

We have to call in, on the grounds that anyone could send an email or text, and they need to make sure it is you.

If you are emailing from a work phone or work laptop though it has security passwords so nobody else could access it.

The first one I have no problem with.

Its been standard across all my jobs to call in if sick and tbh, I'd consider it less hassle than grabbing my laptop and logging in to emails.

But yeah, the reason for absences is surely on a need to know basis and even then, surely there are confidentiality laws they need to be adhering to?

My manager used to do this but to the extent she had a whiteboard in her office with a chart of who was off and exactly why - when they were expected to return and whether it was sanctioned by a doctor or not .

Including details of miscarriage, surgery, flu, depression, all sorts .

Horrendous and I often wondered if she was breaking the law ! She’d have claimed as it was a locked door probably not .

@schwaneverstressed

My manager used to do this but to the extent she had a whiteboard in her office with a chart of who was off and exactly why - when they were expected to return and whether it was sanctioned by a doctor or not .

Including details of miscarriage, surgery, flu, depression, all sorts .

Horrendous and I often wondered if she was breaking the law ! She’d have claimed as it was a locked door probably not .

Blimey, that's awful!

I don’t see anything wrong with it either. If you know someone is sick then you won’t assume they have sorted everything out with their work. It’s helpful.
I don’t understand why some people have an issue with it tbh.

@ItsNotMeAnymore so you'd be OK with the entirely company knowing you were off for a medical appointment? I certainly wouldn't be. Why can't a list of absences just be "PinkFootstool - available WFH /. It available before midday / not available".

No one needs to know if someone is sick. I keep coming back to the notion of work being covered - that's for the person's managerial to arrange, there's no need for a list to go out to an entire business, for some nosey arse to say "ooh, that's the third time she's been off this month, she's lazy" or similar.

Calling in when sick should be standard practice everywhere, too many people text or email and it’s offered an easy route for those who are taking advantage.

With regards to disclosure, it perfectly legal to inform that someone is sick so long as the nature of the sickness isn’t disclosed. In my experience, stating covid is walking the line, but there’s an argument that it gives people the heads up that they will be out for 10 days. Although I don’t see why they can’t just say ‘out of office’ for all of it. What’s the difference, either you are in or your not?

Problem with phone call is no document trail who said what to who. Email is better.

Ringing in is normal. It is so you really think about whether you need to ring in. Pretty standard policy.
The list is unreasonable though. I'm a manager and I and all the other managers get updates on who is sick, isolating, WFH etc. It's definitely iffy with GDPR too. Things like sickness and even annual leave to an extent should only ever be given on a need to know basis.

Doesn't say WHY you are sick. Just that you have called in sick.

I’d lean towards a breach of GDPR here!!

I don't think it's unreasonable if they are just stating that you are sick /annual leave / WFH / in meetings etc. It would be unreasonable if they were giving details as to what you were sick with! I have been off sick a lot over the last 9 months (cancer) and I have kept my out of office email automated response up to date with whether I am on sick leave, or working full hours, or working reduced hours etc. It helps quite often if you know that someone is off sick or on annual leave as you might choose not to email them or leave them a voicemail but instead ask someone else to do that work or wait until the unavailable person is back. I honestly don't think it's that bad a policy to have 🤷‍♀️

Try being a nurse - all colleagues get told exactly why you’re off! What ailment you have - personal
Info ! It’s disgusting but happens everywhere all the time and HR seem to condone it.