Is this inappropriate or am I overreacting?

[Tinkerbellone]

Sorry if this is waffly.
DD14 at school today. New places in all lessons. In Maths lesson the boy next to her puts his hand on her thigh, she looks down, he looks down and he starts rubbing her thigh.

She said she didn't know what to do. She panicked. Froze. The Teacher was teaching so she felt like she couldn't make a fuss.

After the lesson was over she told her friend who went with her to tell the class teacher.
The teacher listened and said 'I'm sorry that happened to you. It was inappropriate. I will move you to the back of the class for next lesson.'

I'm assuming there are spare seats there at the back.

She seems happy it will be sorted. She's not overly upset.
I'm concerned about her response when it happened...and whether I should expect school to contact me? Is this a common problem at secondary? Should I call school?
I appreciate it's a Friday and I can't really do anything now. So many things here I'm not happy about.

Advice much appreciated x

Don't underplay this. He was inappropriate, whether clumsy or not, this behaviour is inexcusable. He should be given the opportunity to learn that this is inappropriate but the problem should not be moved away from him in that class. What about the next girl he sits beside and the girl he gropes on a train and the girl he gropes while drunk and gets carried away with. They will all walk away feeling unsure of what they did to invite this and why no one stopped it.

I am absolutely fucking appalled reading this. Disgusting and I am sorrry your daughter had to experience that. He needs to be dealt with and told how very serious this is.

I’m a teacher and I don’t think you’re overreacting at all. That seems an unusual response from the teacher in question and this requires a) the boy being spoken to severely and b) it being reported to the safeguarding lead.

I talked to my other daughter and she said 'what? I'd say get your hands off me your weirdo!'

My DD14 she would never do that. I'm really proud she asked for help to tell the teacher. I'm kind of not wanting to worry her. She's very anxious. We've talked about what to do.
She seems to think the boy has done something like this before in Y8 but she doesn't know for sure.

I will 100% contact school on Monday.
I appreciate all the replies and advice thank you. I'm single parent so sometimes I have no one to ask advice. I'm very happy to have MN to support

In what works would anyone think it was appropriate?

*world.

Her response was completely normal (in fact, the most common response in these situations is freeze, it's a biologically normal response)

We all think we would yell or shout but when it comes to it it's a biological instinct to freeze when we feel under threat. She did an amazing job telling someone after.

Er what that isn’t just “inappropriate” it was sexual assault of a minor and a potentially criminal matter. Raise it in writing with the school and ask for a written response. Do not let them sweep this under the carpet.

The boy should be suspended.

It is completely inappropriate and the teacher was right to address it. However, I would want the reassurance that his inappropriate behavior is actually being addressed, as that is the problem here.

Safeguarding lead here.
Hopefully the teacher will be reporting this to your dd's school safeguarding lead. It should really have been done as soon as possible after it happened and your dd and the perpetrator should have been interviewed separately to give statements, then appropriate action should have been taken. This is not acceptable at all and in fact, it is the perpetrator who should be moved (or even removed) if your dd feels uncomfortable with him in class.
Do follow this one up with the safeguarding team at the school.
I also have a 15yo dd and would be absolutely livid if this had happened to her. I hope your dd is okay

The teacher should have put in a formal note to the DSL.

Find out if that happened first thing Monday. If not, why?

Be aware school will not tell you the outcome of action against the aggressor. You need and your DD need assurance school has this in their sights.

This should be being taken seriously, even though the teachers immediate reassurance and demonstration of action given to your DD.

@BoredZelda

In what works would anyone think it was appropriate?

Exactly. I cannot believe someone said he may have just been being 'clumsy', what the fuck does that even mean in this context? It was entirely deliberate and people who make excuses for boys sexually harrassing and assaulting girls are part of why stuff like this continues to happen.

Sexual assault, peer on peer abuse, whatever you call it it needs to go to the DSL and do call on Monday to find out why they haven’t yet been in touch. She shouldn’t be the one to move. It needs proper recording and investigation. Toleration of so-called “low level” behaviour means boundaries get pushed.

@PheasantsNest

Tell her if it happens again to pick his hand up and hold it in the air and asks if it belongs to anyone. I had a creep try it on me. He soon got off the bus we were on.

No 14 year old girl will do that in class. Especially not one who was too shy to tell the teacher at the time.

OP immediately escalate this. The teacher's response was beyond dreadful.

I'm a teacher and if that had been disclosed to me I would have immediately followed our school's safeguarding measures. I would have followed the TED procedure with a record of what she said, told her the steps I have to take (eg I cannot keep it confidential) and again RIGHT AWAY rung my school's chief safeguarding lead. We are told to do so, told we can interrupt them whenever, and I absolutely would have done so for this.

It is serious, it does need investigating - to find out what happened by a person with the safeguarding training. I can't tell you anything but there is something that happened to a student I knew once that has echoes here.

All the best to your daughter. She reached out, which is brilliant. God I wish this stuff wasn't so prevalent and the measures so necessary.

To clarify: I would have had the conversation with the safeguarding leading after having spoken to the student.

My comment was to @Ilovetoddlerssaidnooneever wouldn't be happy with what the teacher said either and I'm surprised they didn't consider this a safeguarding issue, that's really poor!

As she doesn't know if the teacher passed this on or not so you can't say it's really poor or not. You don't know the circumstances of the environment and whether a further chat with the OPs DD was or wasn't possible.

@FatAnneTheDealer

The back of the class, at least in my day, was where they put troublemakers and those who didn’t care about the lesson and just messed about. My tentative advice is not to accept that solution (tentative only because I don’t necessarily know about the back of the class). The front would be, in my view, a much better plan. Then the teacher can easily monitor anything untoward going on.

@FatAnneTheDealer off topic but it is the opposite in most classes- you want the ones who are more challenging close to you as a teacher and the well behaved at the back.

Definitely phone to clarify on Monday, he could well have told the safeguarding officer, we just don't know. That boy definitely needs help as it's worrying behaviour

@pollypocketlover it was me who used the word clumsy. I was paraphrasing the OP's "awkward attempt at something he'd seen on TV". I thought it went without saying that what this boy did is unacceptable irrespective of his intentions, but maybe not🤦🏼‍♀️ He needs to be told in no uncertain terms that this behaviour is totally unacceptable (and will, if it is reported to the DSL). However, he will be dealt with differently if he is an otherwise lovely child who likes OP's daughter and thought this was the way to show it (still not acceptable) than if he is a repeat offender with misogynistic ideas (not acceptable). Remember, we don't know anything about this boy. As the OP said, this is someone's son too. The school has a duty of care to him too. He may be a very young 14, he might have SEND that mean he struggles with social interactions, he might come from an abusive home, he might be a budding predator, he might watch porn, he might be getting into migtow etc. We just don't know. All we know is that what he did was highly inappropriate and that needs to be made very clear to him.

@pollypocketlover I hope I have made it abundantly clear that I am not making excuses for this behaviour. Feel free to apologise for assuming the worst and implying that I, as a female teacher, am implicit in perpetuating a school culture where abuse is normalised. When you're ready.

It is inappropriate. YANBU at all. Boy needs disciplined. Your dd should not move, he should, and this should be escalated so he is talked to about appropriate conduct. He obviously does not understand/ care about boundaries so needs to be watched carefully by the school to be sure he does not do this again to your dd or anyone else.

Back in the 80s (!) and at primary school I was bullied for a few break times by a group of 3 boys who would not leave me alone. I told a teacher - the response was to make me sit indoors for break times until the problem went away. I still think that was a total bullshit response (I was even asked to sort envelopes for them - child labour! - until I felt it was ok to go back outside). It’s set me up to challenge schools on behalf of my kids because sometimes they get it so wrong. Even at the time I thought it was bullshit and I was 8. Challenge the teacher OP and escalate if necessary.

Hi... I thought I would post an update.

The school took it very seriously as a safeguarding issue.
DD had to make a statement & was interviewed. So did the boy.
A risk assessment was conducted to ask my DD if she felt safe in class.

However, lots of other children from that year got involved and threatened the boy.

Teachers have been saying to angry students, 'he said he didn't do it and we have to believe him'.

I'm not sure what to do now? My DD feels he's 'got away with it' however I'm sure it will be noted in his school paperwork. Also, I'm not sure what sanctions he could have received as it was her word against his (and he has denied it).

So feeling a little sad but I can't really see what more school could do?

he said he didn't do it and we have to believe him'.

You need to remind the teachers that their duty is to assess the risks to all of their students and protect them appropriately.

The party line should be .. we cannot comment on the investigation... we cannot determine the facts in this occasion so have implement changes to reduce the risk of this happening.. we will seperate students, remind everyone that this behaviour is not acceptable, put boys next to boys if necessary and most of all, remind all girls that they will be believed if they make allegations of this nature but equally, that such vigilante behaviour is also not tolerated and the boy in question should not be treated as guilty unless a thorough investigation has found him to be so.

Most important.. is believing the boy should not trump believing the girl without other factors being known. Do not let them reiterate the belief that women and girls will not be believed. It is very harmful.